An Open Marriage… don’t even think about it?
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After a long Career at age 83, Ruby Dee has finally been nominated for an Oscar Nomination for her role in American Gangster. I am so happy for her and I wish that her late husband Ossie Davis could be here to share this with her.
They just seemed like the perfect couple to me which is why I thought of doing some research on them for black history month… for something like..famous African American Couples in History. Well it did not take long for me to find out that they had an open marriage. This was old news..but it was new news to me.
Ossie Davis has been quoted as saying:
“It occurred to us, from observation and reasoning, that extramarital sex was not what really destroyed marriages, but rather the lies and deception that invariably accompanied it — that was the culprit. So we decided to give ourselves permission to sleep with other partners if we wished — as long as what we did was honest as well as private, and that neither of us exposed the family to scandal or disease. We had to be discreet and, if the word can be apt, honorable in our behavior, both to ourselves, to whomever else might be involved, and most of all, to the family. And for the most part, we were.”
Source: Joint biography, page 317
They said this arrangement freed them. They also said they would not recommend an open marriage for all couples. This revelation about them disappointed me. My idea of a successfully married couple is one that was able to get through the difficult times while still remaining faithful to each other. Actually, I take that back because I know some older couples that are still married after one of them was unfaithful..but they somehow worked through it and now have good marriages. But they did not give each other permission to cheat. (By the way Hubby…if you are reading this..it does not mean I would automatically take you back if you cheated..so don’t get excited 
)
When I heard that they had an open marriage it made me feel so disappointed. It made me feel the same way when I found out Marion Jones was on steroids when she won all of those metals. It was like her accomplishment did not mean anything…she cheated.
I guess by now you have figured it out. I am not down with the open marriage. Sorry hubby..but don’t even think about it. We took vows before God and I know they did not include inviting other people into our bedrooms. It’s still adultery..even if you both agree to do it..right? Plus, for me personally I don’t think I could handle it…but maybe others can. Please let me know your position on open marriages.
(1 votes, average: 5 out of 5)
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I see nobody is touching this one!
Yeah, I noticed that myself. Actually this was something I didn’t know until my wife told me.
I’m so dissapointed! I thought they were a real testament to black love, but nope their not. Open marriages are a joke. Why get married? Be discrete and private. Yeah, until the one your messing with catches feelings and wants you to leave your mate or better yet ends up pregnant.
This is an emotional subject, no surprises there, marriage is the ultimate expression of emotions. Let’s accept upfront that, at about the same time as we get emotional, we get less mental. Our brain goes to sleep and our hearts wake up. So, let’s approach this question with an honest acceptance that we may not be making as much sense as we think when debating this emotional and difficult yet very important issue.
I now have more respect for Ruby and Ossie (may his soul rest in peace).
As much as it is an emotional decision or state, marriage is also a very personal thing. Nothing betrays our true self than our marriage. So, I accept Nicole calling open marriage a joke; I accept theMom invoking the vows made to God as justification for her own view and belief of what marriage is or should be.
What I do not and cannot accept is the sanctimonious and almost self-righteous belief that we may judge other relationships and through that judge others. We are welcome to evaluate and judge the concept and if we like it for ourself go for it and if we do not, leave it alone. That is all we are entitled to.
I am impressed by the honesty of couples in open marriages and mostly, by the strength they potray by exposing their relationships to challenges such as the one mentioned by Nicole. I do not think I can be in an open relationship. This is not because I am above it or too good for it. I simply want and wish for my wife to be my girl and me her boy. If I had to choose between her seeing other people with my knowledge and her seeing other people behind my back, I would choose honesty and knowledge. I wish for honesty in my relationship, I wish for fidelity and I pray for lifelong companionship. As for other people, I wish for happiness, whatever marriage they are in. Remember, you are in a marriage you want, right? so are they . . .
I have to agree with Nicole and The Mom on this one. If you want to carry on the actions of a person who is single then why get married. I guess having to be faithful to one person is difficult for some people. There are different forms of Greed, and I believe open marriages are one of them. I don’t see any feedback from the fellas on this one, do you all agree with that sort of behavior?
Personally, I would never go for that in my marriage. There are too many emotional issues that could muddy the waters. It is also not in my personality or mindset to accept such a relationship. My husband would not want me to do that . For all those other couples who engage in that lifestyle, well all I can say is nuff respect!
Personally, I would never go for that in my marriage. There are too many emotional issues that could muddy the waters. It is also not in my personality or mindset to accept such a relationship. My husband would not want me to do that . For all those other couples who engage in that lifestyle, well all I can say is nuff respect!
My husband and I had a discussion about this one last night. Yeah, I admire the honesty and openness of the relationship. We all want honesty from the person that we choose to share our lives with but understand the unbridled nature of men. So, we decided to settle for less than we deserve and say okay baby, you have your cake and eat it too as long as you are discreet. So, what happens when her kiss is sweeter than yours, what happens when her body is tighter than yours because of all those babies that you gave him, what happens when he likes how he feels with her that he can’t resist her anymore and start sneaking around without your knowledge? And what about disease..Aids, herpes? There is no real protection against protection against herpes and AIDS in running wild in our community. What about unexpected pregnancies, they do happen with birth control. On the spiritual side, you never lay down with someone and get up the same way. You always take some of that person with you. When you have sexual intercourse, you literally become one with that person. The bible considers it a covenant, a marriage. Did you know that during intercourse, the same chemical that is released for a mother to bond with her baby during nursing is the same chemical released during an orgasm that causes a woman to bond with the man she is sleeping with? And we wonder where all the drama is coming from. Have you noticed that women only start acting a fool after she has slept with a man when she is feeling betrayed, used, and disrespected? When I got married, I had to pray that all of the stuff that was left with me from being with other people before I married my husband to be removed from my mind and my spirit. When you get married and tough times come and they will, you don’t need the touch of so and so to be creeping back into your mind. Marriage is a sacred commitment that shouldn’t be contaminated with lustful desires that invite destruction not only to your marriage but to your soul. (Your mind, your emotions and intellect.) Nope, I am not feeling the open marriage. I am very disappointed to learn this about this couple. This is the perfect example of how what we do impact the lives of others. The insatiable need to have others in your bed is an indication that something is very and missing in a person’s life.
Mrs. D.,
I could not have expressed it any better. In all fairness, I just got a message from a reader that told me to look deeper into the information about Ruby Dee and Ossie Davis… It will show me that they eventually decided that the open marriage was not for them. I wonder if there was a lot of heartache that eventually got them to that final decision.
I agree ladies, but their is no feedback from the males on this topic. Do men secretly wish their mate would agree to something like this.
I’m a male, and I admit this is foolish, and it’s just dead wrong too…This is why, regardless of whatever wealth I’d achieved, I’d never want a woman on the status level as Ruby Dee…..Diva type women (even black ones) are even crazier than their poor counterparts…I’m not saying that there aren’t open marriages among common people and that common women don’t cheat, but, it’s just not as bold
I guess I am a little late, but… What a subject!! Unfortunately, marriage does not mean the same to people as it means to God. We will all find ways to interperet what is said to suit our needs. I personally find it shameful and deceitful. Even if it is a shared deceit. I could not fathom sharing with someone, other than my husband, what God intended for him alone. Neither could I accept it if my husband did that to me or asked me if that interested me. Just like homosexuals or lesbians believe that their lifestyle is o.k. I find that disgusting, but, who am I to judge?
My mother-in-law had nerve to come over to my home and talk to me about an open marriage and show me examples. I guess she was either putting this bug in my husband’s ear or he did it himself. I don’t have proof.
But I will say this I don’t believe. If you really feel that it’s okay to step out of your marriage for relations, just let your wife or husband go.
M, I must a say that, that is totally rediculous IMO. I would also be very suspicious of that and what the point was. Is she married? If’s she’s not I’d be even more suspicious.
Interesting…
I could see where that would taint the image of what we thought about them, but in the end, it’s what we thought. They did what worked for them. I don’t know that there is a specific model that folks must follow when married. I figure folks ought to do whatever keeps them together. Does that make their marriage any less valid or filled with love than couples who don’t believe in that sort of demonstration? I think part of the beauty of being involved with someone is being able to make your relationship be any way you want it to be.
Having said all that, I wouldn’t want to be in an open marriage, relationship, any of that. I’m selfish, I don’t even want another joka even fantasizing about my ole lady. lol
I have their book and if you read further, they ended because it did not work out well. There was an article about them in Essence a year or two ago.
Americans and god! youre all nuts
My wife and I tried divorce. It just didn’t work for us.
I thought it was the honorable thing to do… to tell my wife how I was feeling, that I felt it was important to my life to play with other women. I thought the only option was to offer her a divorce before I had an affair.
It turned out that maintaining the lifelong friendship and partnership between my wife and I was more important than conforming to a standard for marriage that did not make us happy.
So we are in an open marriage. And we still have our struggles. And every day we are happy to have each other.
I have no idea how Ossie and Ruby arrived at their arrangement, but I know several couples who live in successful open marriages. Everyone’s story is very different.
Hey,
I think there is a connection between this and the popularity of swingers.
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This is interesting. I heard this about them, the same as I heard about Will and Jada Smith.
How do I feel about it? I am not in their marriage. I want my marriage to be between my husband and I.
Are there extenuating circumstances that would lead a couple to believe this is best for their family, children, career, reputation? Perhaps.
Consider: AIDS is ramphant among black women who get it from heterosexual relationships with black men…many of them married men
Consider: A knowingly gay husband or lesbian wife who torments their spouse by “not being in the mood” and makes the other spouse think there is something wrong with me ”
Consider: There are more black boys and black girls being raced with just mothers, perhaps open marriage would keep some of those fathers at home
Consider: The high cost of divorce and division of marital assets
Even with all of this, I just want my husband
That is sad I thought they were almost perfect, but I think on a whole that this happens very often. I’m not that open marriage type guy so don’t even ask, or joke about it. It makes my blood boil to even thinking about someone touching my wife in a sexual manner, no way. Did I mention that I’m not with the open marriage stuff?
You have to consider their occupations. They traveled all around the world on different projects in different parts of the world. I think that is totally different then if you and your husband/wife live in the same town and he is stepping out on you.
Marriage is for Christians, people. God created marriage for HIS people. You must stop looking at worldly couples who are “married” as equal to all married couples.
Gays marrying, people marrying animals, people marrying and having all of THEIR OWN RULES is all blasphemy and should be looked at as such. This couple (and many others) do not represent a REAL married couple. I would say that they are two sinful, freaky individuals
Guys, no one has even thought of this issue until we discuss it. Has anyone asked, “what happens when the marriage is no longer a representation of happiness” for each partner. What if you just can’t get out because of things like mortgages, kids, sickness, perception. This is an alternative. And yes I do agree that there may come a time when his/her touch is much better than the significant others. But lets face it. I hear all these people saying its wrong. Can anyone answer any of those questions. Open marriage is not just about sex. There maybe a mental comfort that is lacking or missing. Have you ever heard about women or men that “NO” is the only word they are familiar with? You have to take into account that just maybe these folks want to spend the rest of their life with each other and are trying to do just that. Believe me if I don’t want to be with someone yes, I think leaving is the fix.. But on the other hand what if you don’t want to leave. What if they won’t leave. Your option, well I will just be miserable……For the rest of my life. I don’t know about you guys but, I just wouldn’t want that for me. I would explore and exhaust all options before I gave it up………………..
Food for thought……..
again, i stress that the institution of marriage was created for God’s people.
other than those who have come together with God presiding in their hearts and over their lives, you have the rest of the world doing things their own way. a marriage they get involved in is no different. they design their own rules and design their own way of doing things.
it’s not God’s way, not His plan, not His design, so it’s not acceptable. end of subject
I am a man whose wife has requested an open marriage after cheating on me after 12 years of marriage. We were our first loves and have been with each other since we were teenagers. I have chosen to adapt to this open marriage to let her explore her freedom in the hopes that she realizes the grass isn’t necessarily greener on the other side.
I am a man who has never ever had an urge or desire to cheat on my wife, she has been my whole world and I am trying to overcome my feelings of Jealousy, and Insecurity as a result of my situation.
More Power to people who life that open life style and manage to not have the jealousy and feelings of insecurity. These are hard to overcome, at least for me.
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I think this is a discussion that can and will be around for a while. However having an open marriage just like all other things in life is strictly up to the (couple) that chooses it as their way of expression “if that makes sense” nevertheless my only concern is when you go against the laws of “NATURE” and order we not only confuse ourselves but, we begin to confuse our children. I must say after watching BARACK OBAMA last night I finally realized the importance of my choices and how much of a priviledge I have because of the great Martin Luther King and all the others in front and behind him. Me being 29 I have always heard of the stories and history that took place on that day but, never really understood it until last night. So, with that being said I think that all things have order and timing in them. To wait on the right mate and then turn around and say I want others on the side (open or closed) is not a sign of order but a sign of selfishness. I truly suggest that if one isn’t ready to be married to 1 person and remain faithfull then don’t get married and more importantly please don’t be selfish to yourself, your kids or others. My husband and I live by the saying “WHAT YOU DO EFFECTS EVERYONE AROUND YOU” and I can open heartly say I had to learn this the hard way, but thank God I stopped being selfish of my own needs before it was to late.
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WOW!! Judge not, lest you be judged. Right? I do not agree with ‘open marriages’, whatever that means. As someone already stated, if you have sex with someone other than your spouse IT IS ADULTERY!! Plain and simple. This 26 year old guy told me, two days ago, that he does not believe in marriage. I asked why and he used military spouses as his example. He said, when the soldier is preparing to deploy, the spouse is crying and all emotional. The next week that same crying spouse is in the club or creeping around with someone else. My response: people don’t get married for the right reasons. If you say, well we are having problems, so we need to have an open marriage so I can feel better. That is WRONG!!! Whoever said marriage is easy and you are supposed to always be happy, must have been smoking that ooooh wee. Marriage is work. You will not be happy everyday with your spouse. There are going to be days when you may not even like them. That does not mean you divorce or decide, together or individually, that you want to sleep with other people. Marriage is for a lifetime. You ARE supposed to have your cake AND eat it too, (that’s what you do with cake, duh). You have to be committed to your spouse. That is the basis of marriage, not love. Love is learned. (If you disagree, then tell me how people can have feelings for celebrities or people they have never met).
I think that an open marriage is ridicoulous and if you are going to have an open marriage then you shouldn’t even get married at all because it will do nothing but cause confusion and infidelity to your relationship with your spouse. You are suppose to honour your vowels made to your spouse at the altar before God himself, it’s crazy and it is adultery….But to eaches on whatever float your boat
Open marriage is somethin I have considered myself, after haing the opportunity to observe those “higher class” people’s social shenanigans and what I noticed is that most aren’t as ready as they appear for the wild desire of complete openess, and that once joyful, they become unjoyful as jealousy, spite and rage rear their angry heads. If sex is an expression of our highest levels of being, an act of pro-”creation” whereby we become more like ourselves, and closer to god, one might consider numerous liasons beneficial, if they were two truly conjoined complete spirits…which only happens (for most) after years of exclusive intimacy with the same person!
For those regular folks who are only in for what they can get for themselves in the moment, no number of people could ever elevate their spirit or cleanse their souls of greed.
I THINK THAT IS CRAZY BECAUSE IT IS TO MANY DISEASES AND EVERYTHING THING OUT HERE FOR THAT. I DO NOT AGREE WITH SUCH BEHAVIOR
Looka here right, I know I may not be too popular after this, but what’s right rarely is popular. Majority of the individuals involved with open marriages and swinging eventually come to one of two realities: My marriage is really friends with benefits -OR- Sex is a physical desire that once satisfied, still leaves me wanting emotionally. Don’t be fooled. God created us and the institution of marriage. It’s interesting to witness individuals stating how desiring another outside of their marriage is natural. Heck, sin is natural. Marriage, true marriage, is instituted by God. Not based on sexual desire, but commitment to God and to each other.
This idea that monogamy is unobtainable pollutes values and taints thinking. So therefore know, I’m judging, simply standing up for what I believe to be the way of God; therefore keeping it relevant in social thinking. Sooooo many people, male and female, become fractured for life from infidelity, condoned or otherwise. It’s something that skews sense of self.
Marriage isn’t a cake-walk. It’s work, but well worth it. My husband and I have been together for 21 years. Long ago we concluded that we’re two imperfect people who need the Perfect God to keep our union tight. That includes denying sinful urges in exchange for Godly principals. So that closes the book to open marriage.
My wife and I have been married 26 years, my parents 61. Most people would consider these succesful marriages on the surface. Within those marriages are a plethora of needs which change over time, in frequency, signifcance, and passion. These variables are just that, variables, as opposed to constants, such as unconditional love and emotional support.
You can not gaurd your marriage against your lover’s heart being stolen from you except by loving them and taking care of their emotional needs at least as best you can. And that is a guard, not a garuntee.
People are passionate beings. Their passions can betray them. A couple can choose to accept the wide range of desire as an adventure to be explored in the safety and protection of marriage knowing that there are risks and rewards.
Only the couple in the relationship can tell where their spouse’s heart is headed and thus estimate that risk. Are we growing together? Or are we growing apart? Are we lying to each other or to ourselves?
Don’t undermine the emotional suport and well being of your partner. That is the sanctity and promise of marriage. Once proven solid
can those two share physical experiences in a way that they would’t have allowed for when they were dating?
In my mind it is their choice to try or not and if they are at that point I wouldn’t have questioned their motives. That doesn’t mean the outcome is garunteed either for better or worse. New and different is almost always exciting to think about and usually not what we fantasize in reality. As an experienced husband, I would encourage anyone not to stop fantasizing. The rest is up to you, your partner, and the confines of your private world.
This was set in motion with someone confessing the details of their private world after one member was gone. That doesn’t seem completely cricket, but I am not judging, it seems like it struck a chord with a lot of you. Thank you for your honesty.
Leon
This is such a disappointment. There seems to be very few true marriages now days. One love, one man one woman making it work… period. Very sad and depressing. I’m never getting married.
It seems so naive to think that a married couple will only be attracted to each other “till death do they part.” I’m not encouraging sex outside the marriage, but let’s open our eyes and look at the truth… It happens all the time. It happens that the cheaters are mostly men, but women do it too. Ozzy and Ruby were realistic. Extra marrital affairs have been happening since the beginning of time, and God evidently doesn’t have a problem with it, because David was a man of God’s own heart. One can’t deny that God gave wisdom to Solomon after asking for it. Jezebel was an ancestor of Jesus, and there are countless other biblical accounts of sexual activity that seems to be always ignored, so just making the statement “Don’t even think about it,” is not going to stop him from “thinking about it.” Americans seem to be the only nation of people so hung up over sex, yet it’s all over BET, MTV, and CMT but no one takes a stand against that. Furthermore, the way some women dress going to church is a turn on. I mean really, women aren’t as clueless to their intentions as they pretend to be. However, I am not placing the blame completely on women, because men are at fault for going after them, BUT, let’s be real… If you put the bait out there somebody is going to bite, and men are the weaker sex when it comes to “doing it.” Women tend to have more control, which gives them the ability to flirt ceaselessly, and carelessly.
The problem with having an extramarital affair is exactly as Ozzie described it. The problem stems from not being truthful. It’s more trouble lying about the situation than it is covering it up. If you’re out in the open everyone knows what to expect. You can expect that most men will not leave their wives, because more than likely they really do love them… Let me explain.
Sex doesn’t mean as much to men as it does to women (you would think that by now every living person over the age of 25 would already know this but some people like living in a cloud of deception). Sex is more physical for men than it is women. Just because a man has sex with a woman, it doesn’t mean he loves her, it just means he wants to have sex with her. On the other hand, for most women, sex is associated with relationship. This is the reality, you already know, you are just afraid to admit it, most folks are in denial, but it’s alright, the truth can set you free. But, therein lays the problem… for Americans, not the rest of the world. Americans have been programmed to believe that sex is something bad, and if you do it outside of marriage you’ll go to hell or something. Here’s the kicker, although we perceive sex as bad, we are inundated by it, which makes us confused about it. Should we act it out, should we hold it in, then there’s the guilt.
Now the real problem with our sexual nature is the fact that HIV/Aids is occurring and spreading in our community like wildfire. This is not good. How did this happen? Married men, secretly (with emphasis on secretly) having sex with other men. Why? Perhaps they didn’t want to make their wives suspicious of them having an affair with a woman, so they instead had sex with men in order to keep their wives in the dark (oh, he’s just going out with his “friends”). This is what the fear of sex has come to.
Ozzie and Ruby had a great relationship because they had something that a lot of married couples do not have… the ability to be truthful ot one another
@Gregg - Let me first start by saying I can tell you took your time in crafting that long response and let me end by saying you could’ve save it because it’s garbage.
If you want to live that lifestyle then don’t get married it defeats the entire point.
*Blank stare at Gregg’s response* All I can say is wow…not buying it, never will, and next time leave Jesus out of that mess. I do, however, find it intriguing how people will “self-interpret” the bible to get their point across…the KKK did the same thing…interesting…
I didn’t know that they had an open marriage but honestly it is none of my business. I think an open marriage works for some people. Some couples have an open marriage and don’t even realize it. One or both have cheated on one another and the other person does not know. I say do whatever it takes for it for YOUR marriage to work. Whether it open or closed just be happy either WAY marriage is HARD. Is there a difference between separation and open marriage? Just wondering…
No No an then No some mo! It will lead to problems sooner or later. Most likely sooner.
Dear Cheaters and Potential Cheaters,
I am certainly no angel, but adultry is a sin. In the Holy Bible, God promises to punish those of us who commit this horrible sin.
Even if you ignore the word of God, look at what happens to humans who cheat. The lies…the deceit. And let’s face it, too many people never recover emotionally from being cheated on.
And let’s not forget the dark side of messing with people’s feelings. The shootings, stabbings, being run over with cars, etc.
As a man, I could never agree to this because it is inevitable that another man will get a hold of my wife and “sex her” into total submission.
While we all have feelings and desires for others, we cannot escape our actions. Karma is a real force in the universe that will catch up with us.
Good luck. I will take my chances.
The discussion is on open marriage. Too much emphasis seems to be on the sin of adultery as if it’s the worst thing a person can do, and then invoking the spirit of God as the fear factor for prevention. There are like a whole list of things that are far worst than cheating on your spouse. Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Slothfulness, Anger, Envy, and Pride, are far worst and more destructive to marriages and individuals than adultery, and have the potential of paving the way to a person committing the act. Invoking the spirit of fear into this conversation is not a logical way to conduct an argument. For one thing, God is not a god of fear, at least not the God I believe in. God is logical and totally rational in my opinion.
If you read the quote by Ozzie Davis, he says that lies and deceptions destroy marriages, not extramarital sex, and I agree with that statement. Spouses get over extramarital sex. Strong marriages overcome affairs. The key to a strong marriage and good relationship is honesty, which is what it seems to me Ozzie and Ruby had. The other thing is that their business wasn’t publicly known. In other words, they kept their business between themselves… they were discreet, which I’m sure is VERY hard for some people to be. By the way, discretion is a virtue. Some women confide in their “gurlfriends” more than they do there husbands, and some guys would rather spend more time “with their boyz” than with their wives, which leads to the problem of putting your business in the streets, and taking advice from people that know nothing about your personal relationship. You and your spouse should be the only people that knows what’s best for your relationship, not yo momma, not yo best friend, not yo boss. The other point that Ozzie made is that they would “only sleep with other partners if they wished.” It wasn’t as if they had orgies every night, or screwfest parties. They didn’t have to do anything. They realized that for them an open marriage was the best way to handle their relationship, and they were honest with each other about it. Some couples can’t be honest with each other about shopping much less something as personal and deep as sex, and you know it’s true. Finances are the major cause of breakups and divorce, not adultery. If you didn’t agree to an open marriage, and your partner has an affair, their’s something much deeper happening in the relationship that you should be concerned about.
[...] An Open Marriage… don’t even think about it? [...]
To respond to Gregg: this is another topic entirely, but in the eyes of God, there is no relativism when it comes to sin. It’s all the same to Him, and He died for the child molester as much as He did for the person who stole the pack of bubble gum when they were 7 years old. He hates it all, so He died so none of us would have to bear the weight of the price in His eyes for it. All we have to do is accept Him and live accordingly.
In response to TJJean, Jonesi and Lady D, I could not have made your points any better.
To Ruby: I feel your disappointment, but what they did is not a license to totally condemn marriage as a whole. If you decide to go down that road, guess what? Your husband will be married to an imperfect person, and the same thing vice versa. The key is what foundation you build your marriage upon. No foundation of marriage is successful without God as the helm.
Ultimately, activity like this carries its roots in selfishness. A marriage is an institution that has no room for that kind of root.
Gregg is one of few on this thread who should be applauded for attempting to think through such a significant and emotional subject. With so much talk solely relating marriage to God, what can be said about those who desire a long-lasting marriage who happen NOT to be Christian? For them such biblical and doctrinal positions regarding marriage don’t hold. Yet, they may themselves desire monogamy in their marriage. Basing one’s marriage on biblical principles and precepts is, to be sure, appropriate for Christians, but Christians do not corner the market on marriages. In fact, the Christian ideas posited here are consistent with a certain, more conservative evangelical, stripe of Christian experience, whole does not make up the whole of Christianity. All that to say, just as Christian experience in particular, and lived experience in general, is varied, so too are marriages. Some folks simply aren’t driven by puritanical biblical ethic and should not be judged because of it.
Having been married for going on ten years now (and my spouse and I are devout Christians), I find the most judgmental of folks some of the most problematic. What Ossie and Ruby Dee worked, though perhaps temporarily, for them. EVERY marriage represented in this thread has suffered and/or struggled through or had to address things that others too would judge. The beauty and gift of a lasting marriage is what those within it decide what works best for them. Even more, these marriages tend to last because they were willing to make adjustments along the way, as did Ossie and Ruby Dee over their 56 years. Thank God for their model! Perfect? For some, sure. For other (most notably many on this tread) absolutely not. The most beautiful part is that neither Ossie or Ruby Dee would have considered their marriage “perfect,” just perfect for them. A marriage that adjusted and matured over time, along with them. As a Christian, I find that beautiful, especially when then folks in the church are divorcing at equally high rates as those “outside” the church.
Sorry for for the typos folks!! Should have proofread before sending, but you get the point.
@ dean, you make some valid points. wisdom saturated your response. nevertheless, i would have to disagree with you on just one thing. marriage is an institution that was created by the Lord. any context without Him at the foundation of it makes it a joke.
unfortunately, you’re right. “Christian” marriages are sadly dissolving at an even greater rate than non-Christian marriages. however, that does not negate the fact that it is an institution created by God. in fact, it was the first institution before even the church body was created. that stands to reason that He takes it pretty seriously.
for those who do not believe in His existence or the fact that He takes the institution seriously; that does not make the foundation and fact behind marriage any less true.
Thank you very much for your comments Harriet! However, the presupposition that marriage as an “institution” solely functions within the Christian context is not only a problematic one, but it is also the core issue here. As a minister when I declare a couple “man and wife” (an experience I found most enjoyable and simultaneously stressful because of its magnitude) I do so under the authority of God AND the State. To say that the recognition of this institution is or should be confined to those who believe in God, that is, let me be clear, those who trust in Jesus Christ for salvation (as this seems to be the religious & theological thrust of much of the comments above), is to deny the State the authority to recognize the marriage of two loving atheists, or perhaps a couple where one is of the Christian faith and the other of Islamic faith (please folks, don’t make this an indictment on being “unequally yoked”). What of the denial of slaves the right to be fully recognized as married during the antebellum period of the U.S.? For those slaves who were in fact Christian and wanted to take part in this wondrous institution, their denial of marital rights had little or nothing to do with religious views (though in some cases it did). Rather, the slave’s denial had to do with their status in this country as fully human citizens. That is, by way of the Constitution, it was also an issue of the State, and ultimately the U.S. Government to decide the legitimacy of a marriage.
All that to say, this issue is complex and ought not be confined to a single framing or understanding of what constitutes marriage as an institution. Yes, the Bible declares something unique about this institution for those who are believers. Yet, believers are not and shall never be the only partakers of this wondrous institution. In short, marriage IS marriage whether or not the couple is Christian and, at the end of the day, is personal. If a couple, Christian or otherwise, chooses for themselves an open marriage, then God bless them. After all, for married believers, no matter how much we think we are, God is the ONLY judge on matters of the legitimacy of marital practices.
Dean you stated it best. I agree with you totally.
Agreed @Dean. Great points!
Dean - Thank you. Very well said, and which could take us to a totally new topic on gays, marriage, and Proposition 8!!! I’ll let somebody else go there…
Thank you all. I’m just a servant who likes dialogue.
Gregg, I’m with you. I ain’t startin’ that new discussion!
Greg I am staying away from those topics. I know my strenghts and weaknesses Prop 8 and gay marriage is truly for the Most High to deal with.
I have to say that I truly do NOT believe in an Open Marriage. I personally do not understand how anyone can share something so personal with someone else. To the Real Mz Johnson I am a military spouse (for 11 years now) and my husband is gone at the moment but not once have I gone out looking for someone to take his place. Please don’t lump all military spouses together. There are always a few rotten apples out there to turn us all into a stereotype. My marriage and my husband are far too important for me to even consider such an act. My children are also too important to risk tearing their lives apart because of lust for someone else. It is still adultry no matter how you look at it. If you want to sleep with other people you should not be married.
And like other people have stated STD’s are real but so is Baby Mama Drama!!!
Of course it’s not for everyone, but I won’t condemn a couple who chooses open marriage. It’s interesting that so many people have an automatic, negative, knee-jerk reaction to the very prospect of it. Who are we to judge what decisions a couple chooses to make within their relationship? I feel like, if they’re both genuinely cool with it, then rock on. Now, it could very well be a Pandora’s Box opened when they let other people (and emotions) into their relationship. But if they know how to properly overcome & deal with that while moving forward with their decision, these couples could very well outlast the ones who are like, “Open marriages are disgusting and a sin!” and headed for divorce court, lol.
At the end of the day, I got enough to focus on re. making my OWN marriage work–so what two grown, consenting people in a marriage choose to do is their business, point blank. I ain’t the one to throw stones on this one.
Speak on it Veronica!!
Marriage is a construct created by man to legitimize children and to ensure the smooth passage of property and estates to heirs. Also, different religions have their own definition of what marriage is. It stands to follow that people can define what marriage means to them. All relationships are defined by the individuals involved. They set the parameters and the boundaries of what is and isn’t acceptable and expected. If a person wants an open marriage then he or she should find someone who wants the same thing. Relationships are fluid. What works for some couples may not work for all. That includes openness, experimentation, and even wanting to be parents.
Anthonys last blog post..Echo? Black Panther?
I agree completely with greg, dean, and veronica. Every person’s marriage is different and to try and say one type of relationship is the “model” relationship is insane. To say or think that you will only have eyes for your loved one would be calling half of the people in this discussion a liar for the simple fact that most of you would give your right eye to sleep with denzel or don cheadle same for the men who love them some trya banks or janet. We are sexual beings by nature.
Me and my husband are not only honest with our desires for other people, but we listen and don’t make the other feel bad for having said desires. We have discussed the issues of open marriage and thought about a swinger lifestyle, but at this time we just want to focuse on us before we bring others into our relationship. For us it’s not the sex, but the lying and sneaking around that hurts the marriage. But that is OUR marriage. For me, it made me love ozzie and ruby more. It made them human, not some super black couple who give unrealistic advice on love and marriage that most will never obtain.
One thing many may not know is that couples who do have open or swinger relationships tend to have a better grip on marriage and our safer ( they get tested regularly) that those in “closed” marriage. Now please don’t think i’m trying to convert people lol but for me that tells me that honesty is the most important thing in a marriage.
@ Dean and friends
I find it hard to understand how someone who says they are a christian can adopt a viewpoint that is against the word of God. (actually we do it all the time but the point is that its wrong).
I realize that you say that we should not expect those who are not believers to adopt the principles of said faith but that does not mean that we as believers tell them its ok.
If you have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior and the Bible as Gods divine word then you have accepted that what HE says is right is right and what HE says is wrong is wrong.
God is crystal clear on marriage, leave father and mother and cleave to wife and the two shall become one.
He also is clear on labeling adultery a sin. We cannot legitimize what God has clearly called a sin. (I understand that Christians disagree all the time about interpretation but these passages leave no room for deviation). As a matter of fact the word says that the lust of adultery begins in the mind, and is a sin even if you haven’t acted on it.
You cannot laud the virtues of honesty in marriage while negating fidelity. (Simply because I confessed to stealing does not make it right.)
So how, as a christian, can you condone going against the word and will of God?
I know that God is the judge but he has told us to be the salt and the light of the earth. That means to adopt his principles and live our lives in a way that preserves his word and effects everyone around us in a positive way. Loving all, but not condoning sin. (Don’t tell a sinner that its ok for them to sin.)
With that said…
Love is committment. It is easy to be selfish but marriage requires that we put someone before ourselves.
When people have open marriages they are not fully committing themselves to their partners. They are holding back that 100% trust and vulnerability.
And on another note,
who in their right mind would want another person being intimate with their spouse?!? I mean really, how does that work? “Honey, I had sex with XYZ last night.” “Oh really, how was it? are you going to see them again?” or “Oh sweetie, not tonight, xyz wore me out earlier” or “mommy where are you going?” -wheres the “honesty” then?
Wow! I’m young and haven’t even thought of marriage yet, but i feel that this “open marriage” thing is just a lazy man/woman’s excuse at playing house. Seriously when you get married you have to give up certains aspects of your past self, in this case the “free spirit”, and commit to your spouse. Having an open marriage is an excuse for people who were not mature enough for this type of sacrfice to try their hand at it.
hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.
@Unmarried Young Chick - great comment
I caught this discussion late, but I’m totally baffled by those of you who consider yourselves to be christians can be so judgemental. There are so many contradictions in the bible as well as your statements. I do not necessarily “believe” in open marriage. I simply accept that it’s the way that some people have chosen to live their lives. I’m sure there are just about as many successful open marriages as there are unsuccessful ones. I just find it very difficult to judge someone else’s choices in living their lives because it’s “their” life based on their own personal journey which could never be duplicated by anyone else. How dare we do or say anything, especially bringing the bible into this, when it clearly according to many of you says not to judge. I say we recognize the existence of “open marriage” and keep it moving. I personally met Ozzie and Ruby D at a restaurant in NYC a couple of years before he passed away and their energy and spirits were so peaceful and in tuned. At the time, I had no idea about their arrangement, but I’m sure it was something that occurred during their younger years that worked for them at the time, but allowed them to maintain their friendship and unity in marriage. Let’s keep it totally real. Most people that I know who are christians who go to church regularly are such hypocrites in one way or the other. I grew up in church–it was the same when I was a kid and probably even worse now. As a spouse, we should want honesty. I would prefer my husband or myself to be able to share our true feelings about everything (sex is the least of concerns) and to discuss them openly. If Kirk Franklin had a fetish for porn to the extent that he did–no disrespect to he and Tammie’s marriage–how much of an honest relationship could they have had? Honesty and respect are the most important in my opinion. The bible is just way too complicated and full of contradictions as well as the instruction not to judge others for anyone to be down playing anything just because “you” personally don’t like or wouldn’t do something.
@ Mrs. Woodley,
This is probably something for another topic, but–no surprise here–I’m going to say it anyway. You definitely speak the truth in that many who proclaim to be saved have the tendency to be hypocritical, but unfortunately, those kinds of attitudes are relegated mainly to Christians in the United States and Europe, where freedom of religion is taken for granted.
As far as the Bible is concerned, it is not as complicated as it seems. If we’ll be real about it, anyone can take the Bible and make it say whatever they want it to say. That’s abuse of scripture that’s as old as the Bible itself.
But if we take each concept the Bible entails and run it from Genesis to Revelation, we’ll understand the whole counsel of God, including its guidance on marriage. I suspect some simply repeat what they’ve heard their pastors say about certain topics, but others have their own personal relationship with Christ, not with the church they happen to go to.
As far as judgment is concerned, the definition of the word you’re talking about is “to form an estimate or evaluation of; especially a negative opinion of.” You’re right, that is not the place of a Christian.
Neither are we called to sit in on people’s eternal home (another definition). As long as someone is still breathing, then a Christian really shouldn’t be playing with running a person away that is still eligible (via life and breath) to accept the will of God.
However, we are called to weigh certain issues prior to taking any kind of action. We are called to (definition #3) “formulate an opinion about through careful weighing of evidene and testing of premises.” What we, as Christians use as the standard of truth, honesty and integrity is the Word of God…the Bible.
Now, granted, many people’s actions don’t line up. You made mention of Kirk Franklin as an example. But I posit that the fact that he was able to admit it, even on such a public stage, means he’s willing to submit to the whole world as holding him accountable to remaining free from such an addiction.
Now, Dean made some outstanding points about the fact that every couple is not getting married through the auspices of Christianity. Very true. Nevertheless, because a person makes a judgement (definition #3) call about how an open marriage looks through the eyes of God doesn’t mean that the person has formulated a negative opinion. It simply means that they agree with what God as said about THAT particular issue.
But the God that Christians serve is principle driven. If the principles on marriage are utilized for a saved couple or an unsaved couple (things like honesty, integrity, communication…all the things you said), He is going to bless it, whether He gets the glory and credit for it or not. I think it’s unfortunate that couples who do not acknowledge God are showing couples who are saved how to be married and work the principles God set aside for marriage even better than saved couples (hence the fact that saved couples’ divorce rate are 2-5% higher than unsaved couples).
Nevertheless, what hangs in the balance for all of us is eternity and where we’ll spend it. I said it once in another forum, but it begs to be stated again: I want to have heaven on earth AND in heaven.
I agree with pretty much everything you said…I just think that your opinion about Christians as a whole was a little skewed based on the behavior of many in the United States. Therea are Christians around the world who are losing their lives because they believe so strongly that Christ is the Son of the living God. What we take for granted in the United States is the fact that we haven’t yet hit the tip of the iceberg of the persecution that Christians in Sudan, Indonesia, India, Vietnam, Russia, China, North Korea, etc go through daily. Yet they still serve, they still love, they don’t complain.
I could go on and on. I just can’t have you talking bad about my brothers and sisters like that. Not when in the time it took me to type this message, a home church was probably invaded and 5-10 Christians (statistically) were killed for their faith.
@ the thread.
life is not about differences and judging others, for if it were fighting and war would be the answer to all problems. most of this thread speaks to judging others and imposing the “will of god” on the institution of marriage. open marriage is about acceptance, integrity, respect, and above all love.
i would propose that the people will believe what they want to believe. i would further suggest that all people have the free will to decide how to live their lives and maintain their relationships.
much of the vibe on this thread is about fear of judgement and sin. i would advocate that instead of preaching morals and values, most religions and belief systems advocate for acceptance and understanding. how is it that many participants on this thread are so worried about whether people in an open marriage will “burn in hell” or not? if there is a god or gods, why wouldn’t you leave the judging to him/her or them?
open relationships are about reducing the possessiveness of relationships. they minimize the likelihood of partners taking one another for granted and they can revitalize the relationship with new energy. these relationships are about the people involved in them not what you or i think of them.
openness and acceptance are the keys to life. these are positive energy ideas. judging, hate and discrimination are negative ideas. life is what we make it…not what society or religion tells us to be. open relationships are about people trying to be happy nothing more, nothing less.
It doesn’t work for every couple. When two people enter into a marriage, THEY have to decide what works best for them.
Just a point to be made
judging: to condemn someone to hell or heaven
When the Bible speaks of not judging it is telling us not to condemn each other to hell. Meaning not deciding that someone is unredeemable beacuse of their actions. God is the one who will decide whose actions have sent them to heaven or to hell, not us.
So saying that something that God has labled a sin is a sin, is not judging.
And just to be fair, if one is going to use a principle from the Bible as a standard then you must accept all of Gods principles in the Bible, not just pick and choose those that suit you in the moment. So if you quote that I should not judge anyone you are also saying that I should believe that infidelity and hence, an open marriage, is a sin, as the Bible says.
I also want to note that this is an open forum that asked for opinions on the topic. We have all decided what we think is right and what is wrong and we live our lives according to those principles. I would not go up to a stranger and tell them whats wrong with their lives. But if asked my opinion I would not decline to answer.
But understand that it is the goal of a Christain to introduce others to Jesus Christ spreading the “good news” of the gospel. For us to know a Perfect and Holy God and keep him to ourselves is the epitome of selfishness, not acceptance.
@LaKeysha
Thank you for explaining your religious beliefs. As a non-christian, I understand, accept and even respect you and your viewpoints.
However your response seems to assume that everyone either is (or should be) Christian.
Suggesting that because someone advocates for a principle (non-judgment and acceptance) that they are “picking and choosing” principles from the Bible is a flawed assumption. No religion can lay claim to general principles (such as kindness, acceptance, understanding, compassion, love, etc.). These principles are fairly universal to most religions and numerous philosophies.
The topic of discussion is open marriages. I realize that for many marriages are religiously based. For others marriages are just a legal partnership and for some marriages aren’t even an option in many states. Many of the laws in modern America are indeed based on religious beliefs…that doesn’t mean all Americans are religious (or Christians for that matter).
Respectfully,
Nonbelieversimpleton
i think that having an open marriage is not good at all, because like someone said on the top what if that other person gets feels.i belive that if you want something open dont even give marriage a bad name just stay free.
@ nonbelieversimpleton
If I am to adhere fully to belief in God and my Christianity then I can indeed say that my God is the author of all of the aforementioned characteristics (kindness, compassion etc). And while my religion advocates for all of those “general principles” my point is that it also advocates for living within certain parameters and boundaries. If I did not commit to living out all of those standards then I would be a hypocrite.
I hope that my comments were taken as they were intended, with love and respect. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and Lord knows I enjoy a good debate. I don’t expect that those who are not Christians will embrace a Christian viewpoint nor lifestyle but that does not mean that I do not think that they should.
Many people adopt a pluralistic outlook of society where there exist multiple views, not just one right one. In contrast, Chrisitanity is built on Absolutes. Truth is not relative. The Bible is our foundation for knowing what’s wrong and what’s wrong. There are core principles in the Bible that are not negotiable. The sanctity and fidelity of marriage between 1 man and 1 woman is one of those principles.
So as a Christian you understand that everyone has a right to their opinions but it goes against the very core of our beliefs to allow the possibility that a principle established by God may be trumped by a personal preference. This applys whether a person is a Christian or not, because neither God nor his principles become invalid because you choose not to accept them.
Even our society allows everyone to have an opinion and express it but not always to live it. Meaning we have laws against practices that we believe to be wrong no matter what your personal preferance(i.e. polygamy, pedophilia etc.).So yes, people do marry for all kinds of reasons but marriage was the first institution that God created between people, even before the Church, and peoples (mis)treatment of it does not invalidate its sanctity.
And yes, I do assume that everyone either is or should be Christian. If I do not adopt that stance then I make my God out to be a liar because he said that He Alone is God and that we should have no other before Him. And I also make the sacrifice of Jesus Christ invalid because then I am saying that not everyone needed redemption (i.e. they could get it some other way with some other religion).
Forgive the rambling, hope it wasn’t too confusing, just remember this; No matter what your opinion or view I still have love for you and hope that I would never be so ungodly as to treat you with disrespect or contempt because of what you believe.
Respectfully,
LaKeysha
Let me begin by saying that I too and a Christian, and believe that God is above all and that Jesus died in sacrifice for our sins. That being said, I pray that you, Lakeysha, do not in fact let the Bible dictate your life. The Bible is a guide filled with basic fundamental beliefs that all people regardless of religion should follow. Many of these beliefs are in the teachings of Jesus. Let he without sin cast the first stone. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, are just a couple of what I consider to be “The fundamental core principles” in the Bible. However, I would caution you that one thing people should be aware of is that one should probably not mix the New Testament and Old Testament principles.
The fact that the Council of Nicea basically allowed the Catholic church to pick and chose what Christians could and could not believe, and the fact that the Catholic church excluded certain books from the bible, and that King James basically created his own version of the bible to get a divorce, the fact that monks who transcribed the bible through the early generations and riddled with their own individual doctrines, the fact that Christians don’t acknowledge the Dead Sea Scrolls as part of the bible, all make me believe that the Bible is not the end all be all of religious doctrine, especially Christian beliefs. Any document translated over and over again by less than perfect men with their own agenda, and institutions with their own agendas make me hesitant to believe any more than what I believe is right and wrong in my heart, and even more hesitant to impose that same document on others.
Basically, the Bible is a guide. Read it for yourself and if you believe in God absolutely, then He will guide your heart.
As I said before, people in relationships should decide for themselves the parameters of their own relationship. And as a Christian, I pass no judgment on their choices; that’s for God to decide.
Anthony,
I’m not sure why you suggest that we should not mix old and new testament principles. We were given the original law in the old testament which Jesus told us not to neglect because he did not come to do away with it but to fulfil the law (MAtthew 5: 17-10). The old testament is the foundation upon which the new testament stands. The very acceptance of Jesus as the messiah is based on the fulfilled prophecies of the old testament.
But of course that is a whole other subject that would take more than a few lines to debate. As is the acceptance of the BIble as the divinely inspired word of God.
But even based on what you are saying an open marriage is wrong because Jesus Christ said it. Jesus refrences the old testament when he talks about marriage being between one man and one women and not to divorce exept in cases of adultery. So along with loving one another and not casting the first stone, he talked about the fidelity of marriage.
Oops
Matthew 5: 17-19
this was funny .. the comments!
i know what this is suppose to be about but my freacken thing is gone
I think an open marriage is the only way to go. I am black, married with 2 children. I had a relationship outside of my marriage that my husband did not know about. However, when that outside relationship ended, I found myself in yet another secret relationship.
Many people think that an open marriage means you run off and sex with every Tom, Dick and Harry. For me that was not the case. I had serious soul fulfilling relationships with men outside of my marriage that did not involve that much sex. Even though sex did occur, it was not the basis of the relationship.
After many, many, many conversations with my husband about different relationship scenarios, we moved to an open marriage. I think we are happier in all aspects of our life. My husband has no interest in the minutia of my career; I share that with someone else. I have no interest in sports; he shares that with someone else. We always protect ourselves if sex is involved, and we are always upfront with the other person about our marital status.
I think too many people are hooked on the “happily ever after” and don’t realize that humans are multidimensional. You build a foundation with your spouse. Your house still needs plumbing, HVAC, window, etc. I think less people would get hurt, if everyone was honest about their individual needs, and not hiding behind religion to justify an empty marriage that could be okay if you sought solace elsewhere on occasion.
DV said
“I think less people would get hurt, if everyone was honest about their individual needs, and not hiding”
I agree
First, I want to say thank you for all your comments. I was searching the web tonight needing to hear some things about relationships. I was somehow guided to this page. Thank you.
I think we are all trying to sort out the difference between the REALITY of relationships and the FANTASY of relationships. All the comments here could easily fit into both categories. The hard facts are that most of us lack the amount of wisdom necessary to maintain a marital relationship when we embark on getting married. As we mature, we learn and experience much more about this life. Inevitably, our needs change. Marriage doesn’t guarantee that our needs will change together or that we are able to meet our spouses’ changing needs no matter what we try.
Back to REALITY - the reality is that many of us are in a marriage that is NOT fulfilling in more ways than it is fulfilling. I truly believe many of us make attempts at identifying what is wrong and try to fix it by a number of different tactics (open marriages, infidelity/adultery, therapy, religion, medication, alcohol, drugs, avoidance, etc, etc). I also believe that at some point, we all know when the relationship has run it’s course and unable to fulfill each other’s needs. (As it is said, all things are for a season. )
I believe that the largest underlying issue crippling relationships today (and all other ills of society) is FEAR. Fear of everything. Fear of being alone, fear of not fitting in, fear of not embracing societal norms, fear of ridicule and criticism from family and friends, fear of God, fear of one’s inner desires, fear of losing (someone, something), fear of honesty, fear of being hurt and on and on.
I believe Ozzie and Ruby Dee in their own intimate way attempted to conquer the fear of losing their marriage by opening it up. And in doing so, may have indeed saved their marriage. We tend to forget that we are instinctual animals, moved by some basic tendencies. Many times we can use our intellect and morals to contain those desires; however, inevitably more fail than succeed. We all want to live and feel alive and experience this life, yet we imprison ourselves by what we think and feel we are “supposed” to do and be. Most tend to follow the beaten path even when we know where that path goes and how that path ends. Those brave enough, try something different to get a different result. I commend those willing to try something different to get a different result.
i dont think nobody want to touch it because so many people have so many buts about it. open come on now im like peter thats new for swingers. and thats it i dont belive that people of God,would agree with this so called open marriage thing it crap to me when you can again be free and date who you please with no strings if you want it like that.but if there is anybody out that thinking are doing this please but clear and honest with you spouce, and like B.E. T say rap it up and lady protect you self.
Your excerpt from Ruby Dee omits something important. This is a quote from Ruby Dee concerning their foray into open marriage territory and the end result:
“Ossie wanting an open marriage was part of our 52 years,” recalled Ruby. “That period there - I don’t know - I guess all couples go through some period of disenchantment or believing that the grass is greener. And it may not be crab grass on the other side. It may be beautiful. But you come to the conclusion that it’s one of these elements in life where you decide if what you have is really is what you want.
“The complications of being involved with other human beings - and the world is full of marvelous human beings. You could find one maybe every week or every year or something. And, it would be such a topsy turvy affair - in terms of family, property and all kind of things.
“But, we both came to realize that we were very fortunate that, in all of the deep profound, fundamental ways, we really, really only wanted each other.
“It was like a rediscovery of something from the beginning. It’s not something that you’d recommend to everybody. But often Ossie has said - and I’ve though too - the best way to have somebody is to let it go. If it doesn’t come back you are free in another kind of sense - in that you find the strength to let go and wish somebody well.
“So, we thought an open marriage was appropriate for us but it turned out not to be. But then that’s what we’re all about,” she said thoughtfully. “We are moving from one position to another in the process of trying to unravel this thing call life.”
http://www.broadwaytovegas.com/April29,2001.html
I’ve seen up close how this didn’t work for one couple. My old roommate — who is Quebecois and agnostic — was with her partner for 10 years before they got married. They had discussed having an open relationship/marriage early on and she had always had affairs, but he didn’t know about them. I did, however, and I can remember us arguing about it and her telling me that some bonds are stronger than marriage licenses and that as long as emotions weren’t involved and there was discretion, there was no problem. I decided to leave it alone. Not my business.
They decide to get married and she has an affair with someone they know. She’s always lusted after this person and there was an opportunity so she acted on it. Her husband finds out, is hurt (he thought it was just a discussion not something they were actually DOING) and decided well, hell, it’s my turn now. He has an affair. Drama ensues. Their marriage falls apart. They were married for less than 2 years and together for almost 12 years. All that, gone.
She now says she would never do that again.
I think there are enough potential problems in marriages that we don’t have to go looking for problems by introducing other people and their issues into it. This would not work for me.
Open marriage is STUPID….it defeats the whole purpose.
I mean why get married if your going to have sex with other people,
for that you might as well NOT be married and if you feel like you have to go out and look else where for exciment and full fillment than you need to question what was the purpose behind you getting married to begin with.
If you marry someone its for a reason, you saw something in that person that made you consider spending a life time with them.
therefore everything you look for in another mate should ALREADY be in the one you married.
otherwise DONT GET MARRIED.
@Carl
People evolve, therefore marraiges evolve. As evident by the fact that people find sexual relationships outside of marriage, it’s too simplistic to say don’t get married if you’re going to have sex outside the marriage. I seriously doubt that anyone planning a wedding goes into it with the intentions of destroying it by having an extramarital affair. Does that make sense to you? Please, think.
The sex act is not the problem. Disonnection is the problem. When you lose that connection with your spouse, (I think some have used the term communication, but I prefer connection because you can communicate without being connected), when you lose it you feel DISCONNECTED, and we all have a need to feel connected.
Once you become disengaged from your spouse, you’re going to find it somewhere else or in something else, I don’t care how ugly you are, or how much money you don’t have, there’s someone for everybody, or something for everyone to find a purpose in - for - around.
So, IMO, it’s neccesary to keep the connection with your spouse in order to maintain a healthy relationship.
For those of you that need the bible to tell you how to live, 1 Corinthians Chapter 7 speaks on this subject:
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
The whole chapter goes into more detail so check it out. However, I’m under the impression that it’s better to get a divorce than to remain in a marriage where a third party is involved. To be quite frank, one woman is enough almost too much, I don’t see how any man in his right mind can deal with the mental stress of having more than one. Sex changes everything and once that connection is made with another woman the bond is difficult to break because for most women SEX=Commitment, for most men SEX=SEX (and a good nights sleep).
Gregg, Gregg, Gregg…
first of all, where have you been, lone ranger? my husband read your commentary about vulnerability (or friendship…i forgot which one), and almost fell out of the bed laughing because of the similarity in you all’s mindset towards the topic of friendships and vulnerability.
but i digress…
you’ll have to correct me if i’m wrong, but the way i’m reading your last statement, it seems like you’re contradicting yourself and advocating two things that are mutually exclusive.
in one breath you say, “Once you become disengaged from your spouse, you’re going to find it somewhere else or in something else”
then in the next breath, you say, “For those of you that need the bible to tell you how to live, 1 Corinthians Chapter 7 speaks on this subject:”
@ Gregg,
those two viewpoints were the direct antitheses of one another! IMO, you can’t take a mindset contrary to the ways of God and then use the Word of God to justify it.
from a biblical standpoint, if a disconnection has occured, then you work and persevere in prayer and corresponding action until a re-connection takes place. you don’t just up and go find a connection somewhere else.
yes, it is better for two people to divorce than remain married with all kinds of drama, abuse and contention taking place; however, divorce is not the topic at hand…an open marriage is.
since you took it to the Bible, let’s dissect it for a minute: Jesus is symbolic of a groom, and the church, or the Body of Christ is symbolic of His bride. now if JESUS, perfection personified, can wait and wait and wait for His Bride to make her mind up that She wants to commit to Him, THAT’S the standard we need to look at in our marriages.
if Jesus, deity in diapers, can give His Bride His Name and watch as She misrepresents and drags it through the mud, yet be patient in knowing that She will eventually see what kind of Man He is,then THAT’S the standard we need to follow!
if Jesus, the epitome of excellence, can still be faithful to His Bride, even though She uses Him for what He can do as opposed to loving Him for Who He is, then surely, we, who are imperfect, can attempt to do the same, no matter how disconnected our marriages are. check the record and read Hosea if you don’t think i’m on the right track.
bottom line is this: beyond abuse and life threatening situations, disconnection is no excuse to defile and dishonor the origial premise God set aside for marriage. an open marriage is an insult to God, and an insult to any spouse that takes his or her relationship seriously.
i give ruby dee and ossie davis props in determining that this was not the route they wanted their relationship to go. i hate they had to learn it from experience, but all of us have to learn lessons the hard way sometimes.
Harriet, Harriet, Harriet!
I been around. Had to break it off for a minute to do some work. I’m on a photography assignment, taking classes to become a level 3 Spinning instructor, and in my spare time recording my music. I’m waking up with music in my head, so I got to record it. ANYWAY!!!—
Disconnection - I’m referring to people that are disconnected within their marriage. Personally, I’d rather get a divorce than live under the roof with someone I’ve lost connection with. If I’m in a marriage that is not satisfying, I hope to God I don’t find someone that interest me before I relieve my present situation, because I’d probably have an affair with her. I’m just being real. I’m not Jesus, whom btw had the brains NOT to get married (but that’s a different story). SO…
I referred to the biblical scripture (since they seem to be tossed around quite a bit) as an explaination as to why married couples should strive to remain connected, mentally, spiritually, and physically. According to the passage, Paul took into consideration our sexual appetite (incontinency) realizing that Satan will use our sexual appetite (incontinency) to lead us away from our spouse. He goes further to explain in the chapter the reality and difficulty of living a celibate life. It’s HARD.
That’s the ‘connection’ I was trying to make between the two statements, but who knows, I’m known for going off on tangents, and I’m about to go on one now. Ready, Set…
I have to disagree with you on one point you made. Jesus could possibly be “the epitome of excellence”, but we certainly are not, and I for one do not strive to be this perception we have of Jesus. Attempting to be like Jesus is like completely ludicrous. I’m 100% sure you’re not, and although most Americans are christian in their imagination, I’m 100% sure their actions prove otherwise, especially since we are “imperfect” as you rightly stated.
The difficulty of marriage speaks volumes to the love that the Bridegroom (Christ), has for his Bride (the Church), because I’m not putting up with some hardharded, stiffnecked, rebellous woman, I don’t care what Jesus did (who btw, had the brains not to get married). Contrary to what some may believe, everything in the bible was not meant to be taken literally, and the Bridegroom/Bride example is one that should not be taken literally. It’s a symbol of Christ and His Church, and Sunday morning hooping, hollering, and praise ya Lords won’t make you a member.
Furthermore, (and believe me I’m trying to stop because I have stuff to do) some cultures, which may or may not believe in Jesus or claim Christianity allow for multiple partners. For example, in New Guinea, and in some parts of Africa, woman are allowed to have more than one husband AND they take on girlfriends, and if you don’t believe me, google it. Is everybody in the world going to Hell except American Protestants? I certainly hope not because if these self righteous hypocrites that call themselves christian are allowed in heaven, I hope God has an open door policy because we’re going to have to have a one-on-one, because I don’t want to spend any more time around them than I have to here on Earth.
I had looked at this because I am thinking about it. I have been married for over 20 years and have needs that are not being met anymore. I am wondering if this is a possibility because I don’t think I should just be unhappy in certain area’s of Marriage just because I said I do. Yes… we have mortgage, bills, kids and I don’t want to walk out on this which would make it worse if I needed to find my own place and add more bills to this.
A very touchy subjet indeed.
You know we are always trying to follow the advice of fools. God gave us laws, we break them, I break them too. However, when you just say to hell with Laws of behavior you lose the Self Accusing spirit that is needed when we do break them. this spirit allows us to find our way back to the right actions. But if you just say it is ok to do what you want…..then you are really playing russian roulette. These people are not examples for our people. they are tools for the devil to fulfill his evil existence. People of susbstance will never even consider this as a way to keep a good marriage. Marriage takes work, everything we have to make it work and some of us still don’t get it right (Me included). But I will never consider this foolishness just to test this theory. Again if you are unfaithful in your marriage, that is one thing, but to say we are going to allow this to save our marriage is worse. Like giving your 13 year old daughter BC pills. If you believe in the institution of marriage, you will not follow this craziness.
We as Black people have lost our minds following an evil way of life. The Black woman is the queen of the universe and don’t deserve to be treated this way. Hell have a just grip on a lot of people. God is angry at this world for the evil is spreading far and wide.
Ossie and Ruby are actors along with Will and Jada not working for God, but for the devil. Then our magazines like Jet and Ebony put them on the cover of magazines like they are the perfect couple. We are some silly people to follow this madness.
Oh I am not judging anyone, that is for God to do. I am not perfect, never will be, however in our doing wrong, we can’t just say to hell with the RIGHT way to do things. No, just say we are weak and ask for strength and mercy. Why our young people are crazy as hell, serious disconnect from God and Truth!
FINALLY… SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME ON THIS ONE BESIDES MY HUBBY!!!
I was so shocked and very disappointed and your analogy about Marion really drove your point home. My husband and I are in entertainment and I am STUNNED with the number of high profile couples are swinging. And the most shocking part is that this is going on during a time of the AIDS epidemic. Don’t even offer up the ’safe sex’ argument and condoms, hell that’s how my second daughter ended up here so how safe are condoms really?!
I honestly believe my husband and I are like dinosaurs in the year 3000. This is really out of the question for us. Maybe because the idea of sharing one another is utterly insane. If we wanted to be with other people, we would divorce and date. According to the rules, a person should never say never but I can say just that about at least two things. I would never be down with an open married and I would never smoke crack.
Shontell McClain
Wife and Mother of 4
It’s not of God because the commitment to fidelity is from God and not from man, so not even your parter has the right to allow you to be with another. Your bodies are not even your own, they belong to God and it’s a part of a covenant not just between you and your spouse but between both spouses and God. God doesn’t approve of the breaking of the marriage covenant, just because the two people approve.
At some point jealousy and all other sorts of things will come into play.
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