What Black Women and Men Were Thinking Pt III

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by Lamar Tyler | on April 17th, 2008 | 18 comments

Something else that came up when there were only a few heads left at the house: One of the men presented that men didn’t step up because women’s standards were low generally. He advised that if women raised their standards that men would follow because every thing a man does is to impress women.

A few months back I read a woman’s blog Mes Deux Cents that stated something similar. She said that if women wanted the black community as a whole to improve would they be willing to sacrifice by organizing a boycott of African American men who engaged in undesirable behavior.

The following behaviors would be qualifiers;

- Any arrests or convictions for any crime, including serious misdemeanors
- Failing to be involved in the lives of their children, including failure to give financial support
- Dropping out of school prior to graduating from high school and failing to make an effort to either; go to college or receive training that would lead to gainful employment, ex., Carpentry.
- Using any illegal or controlled substance
- Violence of any kind

Click the link above to read more.

BMWK family. Is there any truth to this? Would the boycott save our culture? Have women lowered their standards too far or is all of this just some made up mess?

About the author

Lamar and Ronnie Tyler are the creators of the award-winning blog BlackandMarriedWithKids.com . They also are behind the Amazon.com bestselling DVDs Happily Ever After: A Positive Image of Black Marriage, You Saved Me and Men Ain’t Boys that explores manhood in the African American community. The Tylers are also the proud parents of four children.

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Comments (18)

Lovelyk Thursday - 17 / 04 / 2008 Reply

As a young black woman i'm so for it! I beleive that women's standards are extremely low. The vast majority of women (at least in my area of the world, Connecticut) will settle for way less than what they deserve, just to have a warm body next to them at night. I'm 22 yrs old and i've been dating since i was 15. After feeling used and abused by men who weren't even worth my time from the beginning, i realized that i was worth more than the treatment i was allowing. i'm now discovering (on a daily basis) i'm a beautiful woman with so much to offer and that i'm worth the wait. it's not easy but i'm going to wait for God to send someone in my life to compliment me, and vice versa. Sometimes, well, a lot of times i get impatient. But i try my best to stay focussed on my responsiblities and priorities. But overall, we as women have so much more power than we realize. All it takes is for women to make a stand, stick 2gether (which is a challenge in itself) and let them know (by taking action) that our brothas have a lot to offer and they need a strong woman beside them; to help support them and encourage them. It's a very extreme action, but there needs to be a remidy to solve the growing dilema in the black community.
Mrs. Smith Friday - 18 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Boycott, if I was about 3 years younger I would say lets do it. I have lost faith in my sisters. As the young lady stated above women will do anything "just to have a warm body next to them at night". This isn't just young woman it is older woman also. I look around at a race of ladies who just seem hopeless. No, it's no everyone because I am not that type. Fortunately I ended up with a decent black man and I thank God for my marriage. That doesn't mean we don't struggle, it doesn't mean he is perfect or that I am perfect. While reading the original discussion I ponder the situation with my God Sister and her “Baby Daddy”. One day she hates him the next day she is making love to this non educated, unemployed indefinitely, doesn't support his 10 kids (not an exaggeration he has 10 kids) type of Black BOY not MAN......................he's a BOY at 30 years of age. She goes through this same drama with him but yet she lays up there and continuously has babies with him. The kind of warped mind that brings little human beings into a broken home, makes me look at my sisters and say WHAT THE H**!!! You can't tell them anything because they don't listen, in their eyes you never understand where they are coming from. I know where you are coming from sis I been through tons of jacked up men, I just decided that I deserved better than that. My Daddy is absent but I knew better than to let a man treat me any kind of way. The particular person I am referring to in the above story she comes from a two parent home with very successful parents whom took a lot of time to direct her on the right path. Yet she still thinks it's ok to run up behind a man who treats you like a Hoe taking your welfare money and eating up all of your children’s food. Now I am not saying all black men are this way because we have some good brothers (very few but they exist). My opinion now, if we boycott black men who do detestable things they will find some other woman to impress. There are always going to be ignorant woman who will lay up with them because their self esteem is so low that they are just happy to have a piece of man. There will also be woman who don’t care about what he does they have built a life for themselves without a man and just want to get there freak on and let him go on about his business. Working class woman don’t act like you wouldn’t do it because these grown wealthy woman in my work place discuss it all the time. “Oh girl he is fine, he can’t do nothing for me but he is good in bed.” Again I say, “WHAT THE H**” Maybe it’s just me but is sex really that important. In my opinion that is not a question so nobody answer it because the answer is NO! Go to the sex toy store and purchase some toys if you are that desperate or better yet get a real man not a little boy. Again, there are some real black men; you just may not be healthy enough to attract such a man. Which means it’s time to look at your self and say self what is wrong with me that I have so many ignorant men coming in my direction. Ding Ding because so many of us are sick and we roam around with the mind set that we are fine. We try to hide our pain and feed our sickness with more of the things that hurt us in the first place. To answer the question no a boycott wouldn’t work, yes black woman have lowered there standards to the pits of hell. No it’s not a load of crap and at this point all we can do is PRAY UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS. Here is my belief, black woman have been trained to be the head through slavery (Willie Lynch). Yeah, I believe that slave owners have our mentality warped but as African American woman we must not blame it all on slavery. We need to wake up and realize the man is the head not the woman. We are supposed to be the neck supporting our man. Unitl we put the black man in his rightful place, pray for him and give him over to God. There will no change!!! Unfortunately now days these words fall on deaf ears, which shows me it’s time for a new approach. Not sure what that is yet but when I do I will break down every door to get that message across. Look, there is no disrespect intended through my words but I am just tired of these sisters out here settling for anything. God is powerful and maybe through prayers he will make me strong enough to help all women (not just black). Inside I am just frustrated right now because it's make me sick to my stomach that these woman degrade themselves to nothing and they don't have to. Jesus died for us and this is how we repay him. It's just sickening to me and I don't know how to help simple minded individuals who won't listen to anything you say because their man is different. As I stated before if it was 3 years ago my zealous self would say; if Black woman just took one great stand brothers would get on track. I would have said, we have great power that lies inside of us. I usually just read the blog because it’s great but this particular topic hit home for me. Thanks for raising these question and facilitating a place for us to voice our opinions on the world today.
TheDad Friday - 18 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Mrs. Smith- Thanks for the input, only a small fraction of blog readers actually post comments so for someone that normally just reads to be moved enough to comment is great and we love hearing everyone's opinions. When you figure out what needs to be done let us know. We'll post it :-)
ginag Friday - 18 / 04 / 2008 Reply

My friends and I discussed 'boycotting' in college, when the black men there couldn't be bothered to act right with us black girls when there were so many available and willing white chicks around. And therein lies the problem with 'boycotting': for the most part, black men aren't too bothered with sticking with black women, anyway. We simply aren't valuable enough to them. Oh, they say they need our support and love, but toss a white (or asian, or latina) girl into the mix, and we'll be left by the wayside. Black men wouldn't be hurt at all by a boycott, just say "We knew you didn't luv us!" and pout until the next non-black girl comes along. We simply aren't a high enough priority for black men. Also, our alternatives would be greatly diminished. Black women are not widely sought after by men of other races, so you'd have an entire female population facing being alone. What group would agree to a)face the contempt and abandonment of their own men for b) the (slim) hope of *possible* improvement?
Mrs. Smith Friday - 18 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Why is it so scary to be alone? Maybe it's me but my husband couldn't catch me at first he had to put in some work to tie me down. I was Miss. Independent = Single and loved every second of it. Don't get me wrong married is great. I feel if my Husband died today that would be it for me. A teacher of mine stated this to me after his wife died. He said, "I would give 2 million dollars to get her back but I wouldn't pay 2 pennies for another wife" I agree with him 100%. The fear of being alone is why many people stay with the same ol' trifflin person because they live in fear.
Mrs. D Friday - 18 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Wow, this has been an ongoing discussion for some time in our family. By the way, Mrs. Smith is my daughter and I have taught my daughters to be authentic and she actually held back some words in her comments. (lol) Guys listen up; a boycott is not going to do a darn thing. Men will just move to the next available female. We are trying to solve a spiritual problem with worldly solutions. Women hold all the power and don't realize it. The men realize it because they are well aware that they can only do what we allow them to do. Most women’s self-esteem is so handicapped that they have convinced themselves that their education, clothes, house, cars and what we call a good man, is the pinnacle of success. If your self-worth is wrapped up in material things and what other people think of you, this is an automatic setup for misery. We all want love and acceptance no matter what our social or economic status may be. We want it so badly that we compromise everything even our souls to get it. We have to stop and ask ourselves why? Why are willing to sacrifice everything to feel wanted, loved or needed? Our men are searching as well. They are looking for love, acceptance and RESPECT. We teach our boys that they have to be tough, non-emotional and hard to be a man. So, they are putting on fronts but crying on the inside. Most men who are screwing around trying to be playBOYS have intimacy disorders. They are suffering from some deep rooted hurt but are afraid or don't know how to reach out for help. Instead they pacify themselves with women, drugs and alcohol. What they are looking for will not be found between a woman’s legs or in a bottle. But they have to figure that one out. That takes time. They eventually come around, some sooner than others but women are trying to force them to move it along before they are done figuring it out. The reason why there will always be a new toy willingly or unwillingly; there is always the woman who thinks that she can changes a man’s mind. You can’t change a man’s mind or his way of doing things with your legs open. As soon as you open your legs to a man that you’re not married too thinking that this will win him over, you have already lost. When he is serious and finally ready to settle down, he will think that you do this for all men. My husband said to me once, “When a man sleeps with a woman that he is not married or committed too, she is nothing more than a piss stop of life’s highway”. We hold all the power and don’t even know it. Women must “command” respect. You can’t start making demands after you have given up the goods. Nothing that you can do or say can make a man behave the way that you think that he should. You can’t stop him from playing and you can’t change him. You either accept him as he is or move on. We have to work on ourselves first. We have to ask. Why are we so hard and bitter? Why do we expect someone to be there and love us when we don’t even love ourselves? What’s so scary about being without a man? Why can’t we be so busy helping others that one day unexpectedly, the right man finds you. When we are healthy and whole, we will attract quality people. We have to get back to basics with balance. Men must be restored to their rightful place. Our men must be loved, respected, and prayed for daily to become the leaders and nurtures that God created them to be. But it will take mature women who will close the door that feed their and men’s perversions and command respect from men. We need to praise them more instead putting them down. We need to draw boundaries and stop giving in. When we raise the standards, quality men will eventually come along. The most common complaint I hear from men is that they feel that we don’t support them, encourage them, praise them and use kind words. I have learned that sweet words without compromise create a place of comfort. We are so anxious that we won’t let true love have a chance. We are so impatient that we accept anything instead of allowing ourselves to develop into mature people. We want the fruits of a good relationship without the preparation or hard work that it takes to get there. There are no short cuts.
kim h20s Friday - 18 / 04 / 2008 Reply

ginag, i respectfully disagree with your assertion that black men don't want black women. first of all, black men and women have the highest rate of INTRA-marriage of any group. yes, it's true that a black man will marry a black woman 90% of the time. black women will marry a black man over 94% of the time. just from my observations, when a black man chooses a white woman, he often chooses a white woman who is 'black'. by 'black' i mean he chooses a women who is usually "thick" like a sister, is comfortable in the black community, and if she has kids most often they are by another black man. when a black man does white, he doesn't marry britney spears, he marries tina marie! men of other races do want black women. but we are soo conditioned to think they only want us because we are exotic. i don't know about you, but my parents put it into my head that a black woman who has a white boyfriend is a betrayal to black women who were abused at the hands of slave masters. However, a black man with a white girlfriend is somehow getting a little bit of payback for the past. Just a thought...
Mrs. D Friday - 18 / 04 / 2008 Reply

I agree with kim h20s.."we are soo conditioned to think they only want us because we are exotic." I used to have issues with interracial marriages. I was bitter because I bought into the idea that I have so much white in me because some white dude forced himself onto to some woman in my family. I found out that the ideals that had been passed along were so un true in my family. My great, great, grandfather was a white Frenchman. He separated from his white family and married my great, great grandmother during a time that it was illegal. They moved into deep country to be together. When I learned this, my outlook was changed forever. I have a girlfriend who married a white guy, blue eyes and blond hair. He's not "trying to be black" and she's not "trying to be black". They used to work together, went to church together and got to know each other. Same with my sister-in-law who married an asian guy. They both are really great guys. People are people. I have learned that we are all more alike than we are different. I'm inclined to think like Dr. Fred Price said, "There's no shortage of men, who said that he had to be black?' We all are having relationship problems. There are just as many non-black men who are on the downlow, cheating, taking advantage of people, etc. We tend to focus on black people because we are still fighting stereotypes and what I called "undercover racism". Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy because we have lost our sense of community. We have become so self-centered that we have forgotten to nurture one another especially our children.
Lovelyk Friday - 18 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Mrs. D, thank u so much for your genuine wisdom. God sends us messages that we know are only from him. It's unfortunate that we don't have more women like you to be an example for the many women who's souls are lost and their concept of reality is warrped. We do have power, we just need to recognize it and have our actions follow our self worth. Ur daughters are blessed.
Wizz Saturday - 19 / 04 / 2008 Reply

This is SO true... I've been thinking this for a while now. I'm glad other people are thinking the same.. All you have to do is look at other cultures. In Japan and other Asian countries so called "nerds" are like rock stars.. And it shows.
morningdove Saturday - 19 / 04 / 2008 Reply

I agree a boycott will not work. We are going to have to break the cycle one child at a time. We are all going to have to do our part. You can start by being a good example to your children, your nieces and nephews, the kids in your community, etc..... We are going to have to tackle this problem one child at a time. And yes, pray for them. And vote.. and not just for the President...but pay attention to who you are electing as mayor and on the school boards..because these people have the ability to directly impact your kids ( i.e zoning.. after school programs..etc.) I don't think a boycott or a march on washington is going to do it. I also have mixed emotions about this. I can't say I am angry with women because I don't know their circumstances. I can't say they are simple or ignorant or just want any man in the bed with them. Don't get me wrong..there are some people out there like that. But there are also some people that just don't know any better. They weren't raised any better. It's just like what some people say " I didn't know I was poor when I was growing up until I moved away as saw something different." You have to account for some of that too. They don't know how to break these cycles because they don't even recognize that they are in one. I saw a girl at Target yesterday with a baby. I said: " cute baby..how old is she?" She said: "two months." I said: "is she your baby?" She said: " yes." Is it your first and she replied yes and my last. I said Why? She told me... I am too young..I am 21 and not married. I said you were like me I had a baby my junior year of college and I said I would not have more. But one day you will meet the right man and get married and you might change your mind. She said she was a junior in college. I said that is great that you are staying in school. She said, her father was helping her and that she wanted to go to Grad School..but she did not know if it was going to be possible. I told her don't quit... I shared with her some of things that I did in Grad school to help pay for the child care and expenses. We talked for about 10 minutes.. I did not know her or judge her. I took a moment to talk to her and to share with her. I don't know.... she could have walked off and said ..that nosey hefa.. or she might appreciate some of the things that I said. You never know whose life you are going to impact just by stopping and talking to people.
Tina Saturday - 19 / 04 / 2008 Reply

The comments on this post gave me goose bumps. Is a man going to be the man you met. Is a man going to be the boy/child/youngman that his mother raised. Can a man re lean things and become a husband and father. Is a man who has a black mother only looking for a non black woman? Sometimes they are. It is not a race thing to me but a gender thing. I don't care what color you are a man wants a WOMAN. A man does want to know that he matters and what he does matter. A man will never take home his jump off/one night stand home to meet mom. A man who does contribute in the household not just with money but presence needs to know he is needed. Some woman will settle for anything and call him a man, their man. Morningdove. I am not a nosey person by nature but curious by circumstances and for you to push and "remind" a person that "yes they can continue their education is a great thing". Am I crazy, yes I am. do I preach education of course. I don't care what color or the situation , education is your (aleast your suppose to be) freedom. Education is a must. Circumstacne (what did I get myself into). I have never had a problem telling someone that you need to get your life together or you need to change your ways and cut free from the apron stings. I see too many grown men still saying "mama did it this way". I have to tell him to grow up and get out of mamas house so you can man up and take care of you and what you brought into this world.
Meka Monday - 21 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Why can't a boycott work? Should we take what we are given because there are "others" willing to fill in the gap? My cousin is married to an "other." I have heard family members say things like, "Look at him over there with her!" I ask them, "If you could date him, would you want him?" They take a moment and then answer, "No." He has several strikes against him in the desirable mate section, and I don't believe women should settle, because they have "other" options.
Philosophical Monday - 21 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Well Ladies I have been sitting back and pondering on what to say if to say anything at all and you all brought up some very good points. BUT, let me ask you something hypothetically speaking .. For all of you who feel like Black women have such low standards and that you all have to "tell a man to grow up" and things like that .. What percentage of the population of Black women would you say actually know how and understand how to be a "Woman?" a "Wife?" a "Nurturer?" I'm not being critical of the comments that I am reading although I sense a hint of male bashing to uplift females but I like to look at situations from all angles. I'm sure that we all have heard the old saying, "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and so I would hope that any woman who feels that Black women are "Settling" is not the same woman that a Black man might think that he is "Settling" to be with. I don't believe that it is a Black male thing I believe it is an individual thing. I spend a good amount of time volunteering with youth and just from some of their own conversations I would have to say that the young ladies already are developing a mindset as to what type of Black male that they want to be with. The ones whom they feel will have the Star Power to be the next Kobe Bryant or Reggie Bush instead of the next High School principal or Corporate America working brotha. This mentality in my opinion does not stem from the father but the mother. I can speak from my own personal experiences that some of the Black women that I have met in my life would have been women that I "Settled" with based on you alls definition because I so-called lowered my standards. To me it would have been me saying hey I really care for this person despite their circumstances not that I am lowering my standards to be with them. As a Black man I ask that you all revisit your feelings and ask yourselves, "What if the Black man that I am seeing views me as a woman that he is lowering his standards to be with and Settle, OR are you the female that he has grown to love and admire because of who you are and not your circumstance?" Thanks!
kim h20s Tuesday - 22 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Philosophical, It's only natural that young girls should be mesmerized by those with "star power". I grew up with my mom and dad. My father was an officer in the military who worked as a linguist and an accountant. As much as I admired my father, me and my friends always SWORE we were going to marry Top Gun pilots! Twenty years later, I'm about to marry an accountant.
Philosophical Tuesday - 22 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Kim h20s, So you can appreciate my opinion possibly? I mean hypothetically speaking based on some of the insight provided by some of the women above, us men should be able to protest "Settling" then also right? Granted when it comes to women you probably won't find the same behavior qualifiers that TheDad mentioned above as they pertain to men pertaining to women but how about women with drama, indecisiveness, insecurity, less paying jobs, nagging/smothering etc. Would it be considered "Settling" if a man decided to be with a woman who fits those characteristics? I believe that society has somewhat misconstrued things to the point where some women feel as though if they were to accept a man with the behavior qualifiers as mentioned by TheDad then they are "Settling" instead of "Selecting" BUT when it comes to men if a Black Man were to "Select" a woman of another race or what may have you then he is "Settling" because he is afraid of the Black Woman's strength, ambition, and independence hypothetically speaking.
kim h20s Wednesday - 23 / 04 / 2008 Reply

Philosophical, I do appreciate your opinion. Slavery is long over, everything we do is an act of conscious selection. However it is ironic to say that a Black Man selects a White Woman because he fears the Black Woman's strength and ambition. Last time I checked, Hillary Clinton (a white woman no less!) was making a good run for the White House. LOL.
Philosophical Wednesday - 23 / 04 / 2008 Reply

kim h20s, You must be reading my mind BUT then again they do say that great minds think alike .. LOL .. As far as the irony in a Black Man selecting a White Woman in conversations that I happen to overhear as a third person some of the Black Women out here stated that they felt that that is the reason that a Black Man would select a White Woman. Ironically I wanted to be sarcastic and say maybe that White Woman wont stress that brotha out as much as you would .. LOL .. But I do feel that there are Black Women out here who just hate on brothas if they do end up with a woman of another race. Maybe we can get TheDad to revisit the issues that were brought up in that movie about the successful Black Woman and the White Man .. I can never remember the name of it but the White Man was a gardener ..