Dear BMWK, I’m Caught In The Middle of Becoming a Thug or a Nice Guy

Dear BMWK

by Lamar Tyler | on December 29th, 2008 | 30 comments

We got this in over the holidays in response to an older post: (Why) Do (Some) Black Women Love Thugs!?!?. There were a few follow up comments that I’ll move into this post.

Im 18 and im a college student. For me im caught in the middle of being a thug or a nice guy. I used to have to have the perfect view of what a black men should be, that is until i ran into this one chick. it was a lie after another lie. Slowly now i can see the change im making towards being a thug. I dress different, walk different, and even talk different.

I just find it really really hard to get back the views i once had. It’s almost like she just took them from me.

How in the world can i end this bitter trend?

About the author

Lamar and Ronnie Tyler are the creators of the award-winning blog BlackandMarriedWithKids.com . They also are behind the Amazon.com bestselling DVDs Happily Ever After: A Positive Image of Black Marriage, You Saved Me and Men Ain’t Boys that explores manhood in the African American community. The Tylers are also the proud parents of four children.

Harriet

@ Joe,

First and foremost, I give you props for being bold enough to at least ask the question before going down a road that will be difficult to return from. For you to be 18 and asking these questions tells me that you are more of a man than you thought you were…more of a man than the young lady you were dealing with could appreciate.

It’s safe to say that you probably put a lot into your relationship, and after investing so much, you feel like this young lady betrayed your trust. If that’s accurate, by all means, keep reading.

I work on a college campus (an HBCU at that), and I’ve seen this pattern a million times: Boy meets girl, boy falls in love, boy sees a future, girl is just that–a girl, and too young to know a good thing when she has it in front of her–girl takes boy for granted, breaks his heart, boy uses that as an excuse to either A) go the homosexual route or B) go the thug/playa/pimp/misogynist route.

Guess what, Joe? It’s all a part of life and growing up. You have to take the good with the bad, but what makes you a MAN is how you respond to the ugly. Do you allow this situation to totally alienate you from who you know you already are? What happens when a woman who has all the qualities you’ve dreamed of comes along? You won’t be ready for her, and you won’t appreciate her because you have colored the way you look at women through the lens of a young lady that should not have that much power over you.

You know what you can do? Stay focused on those books, find out who YOU are and solidify that person through studying, prayer, declaring your major, getting a personal relationship with the Lord, etc. Then, no matter what skeezer comes along trying to spit game, you’ll be able to see right through it, because you’re solid in who you are as a man.

I know it’s ironic that this is coming from a woman, but I’ve got brothers who have been through it. My husband went through that stage as well, and if he hadn’t taken the time to really get to know himself, he never would have been able to hook a woman like me…a woman who lives to shower love on her main men: Jesus, my husband, my stepson, my son, my brothers.

The ball is in your court, Joe. You got this. You’ve been who you are for 18 years. Why let ONE little girl ruin your life, and possibly cause you to miss out on the woman of your dreams? Why get in all the drawers you can get and possibly cost you your life? Why get in all the drawers you can get and create another life with a woman you really don’t want to be connected to past one night, much less a lifetime of raising a baby?

THINK, Joe. You already know the answer. I know you’ll do the right thing. I’m praying for you.
Joe

Thank you so much Harriet for your comment.

To be honest i have compared other girls to the girl i tried to be with. I’ve even been making bitter remarks uncontrollably about women. It’s really hard for me not to generalize women.

Here’s another thing that i can’t get over. I have a niece that is 4 years old, and every time i see her it reminds me of what i wanted out that girl i tried to be with. I just a constant reminder of what could’ve been.

Lately i have had my head the books. I’ve decided to major in english, and plan on transfering after two years of college.

Maybe it’s going to take me a while to get back into dating, even though i would love to have a girl-friend.

Anyways thank you so much for the advice.
Harriet

Joe, you’ve got this, man. Life can be hard on a brother, but you seem like you’ve got your head on straight.

One more thing to think about: let’s put the intelligent Joe (Joe #1)vs. the Joe that dogs women out (Joe #2).

Fifteen to 20 years from now, let’s say your 4 year old niece (now 19-24 years old) starts dating, and she truly values your opinion about who she should be with. The brothers she has to choose from are either Joe #1 or Joe #2. From what you’ve said, it seems like you have a lot of love for your niece. Out of love and protection of your niece, which Joe would you rather her choose?

Just some food for thought. Work at becoming someone you would like your niece and future daughter to date later. Then pattern that behavior so they’ll know what’s healthy and what’s not.
http:.//blackandmarriedwithkids.com TheDad

Joe – of course Harriet beat me to the punch and made some dynamite points. Especially the one about your niece.

Don’t let anyone change who you are. I’ll tell you the same thing I tell a lot of our women readers, it seems as though you had a vision of what a REAL black man was and how he operates. I believe you also had a vision of how you wanted your woman to operate also and what values you wanted her to have. Well don’t get caught fooling around trying to be a thug because of what this one chick did then you mess around and miss out on who God really has in store for you. Don’t block your blessing.

Just keep being you, live out your vision of what a man is really supposed to be and keep working on you, hitting the books and being an addition to your family and community and everything else will fall into place. I think by you asking this question you already know the answer and what you need to do. Keep your head up.
http://theyoungmommylife.com Tara Pringle Jefferson

Harriet and TheDad made excellent points Joe. You already have the qualities of a good man, you just need to focus on continuing to grow.

Women can be cruel and liars and all that, but ultimately it’s their loss, not yours. Continue to set a good example for your niece and do you in school. I’m rooting for you!

Tara
http://theyoungmommylife.com

Tara Pringle Jeffersons last blog post..Can you ever be prepared to be a parent?
http://stellarsassysocial.blogspot.com elle denise

Go Harriet!… Take heed, Joe. She’s telling you some good stuff.

As “The Dad” said; Don’t let anyone change who you are. If they can’t accept & respect you for the MAN that you are, so be it. Let that be someone else’s problem.

elle denises last blog post..OnDemand: ExerciseTV
doris

I would like to tell Joe to take the chill out pill and give himself time to mature. Unfortunately I supect that you went the visual route when you picked the girl who didn’t value your heart or feelings. The age of 18 is just on the bring of real man maturity. I think you should take the lesson from this encounter and don’t toss your love around freely, take the time to check out the character of the young women you meet. The world today is a fast place with a lot of false starts and fast women and men. You can’t always have what you want, when you want it,sometimes if you take the time you will get what you need. The key here being taking your time. Work on yourself and your character. Examine what it is you value and don’t lose your values.When I was younger the catch phrase was Chicks do tricks, women lead lives.
http://myspace.com/eddiematheney EDDIE MATHENEY

HEY MAN, sounds like you’re were dating a black woman, a lot of brothers are not aware that they have choices, you don’t have to put up with that crap start dating other races it’s 2008, hispanics, asians, even white women don’t act like that, wake up brothers this is not 1950 you have choices, you don’t have to be miserable!
Joe

Thank you for all the comments you guys posted. I really don’t won’t to change who i am to meet a women. I still don’t know how to get my views back though on what a black man should be. I’m really trying to see the positives in women, but when i do i see one more reason to be a thug.

There was another girl at my college who acted like she was interested in me. So we started talking when ever we met at school. However i found out that i wasn’t the only guy she was talking to.

Same game, different girl.
Harriet

Wow @ Eddie. This subject matter may be for a different forum, but I had to respond to your comment.

While I agree that there are choices out there, I don’t think that there is a stereotypical way that black women act that makes them undesirable. I think there are idiosyncracies and issues that have the potential to plague every individual woman, regardless of what her ethnicity is.

Plus, I don’t think the President Elect would be too happy about you throwing a generalized insult at the demographic of his wife like that. LOL

But when it all boils down to it, you’re right…there ARE other choices to be made out there. I just don’t think it’s right to lump a big ball of negativity towards all black women like that, regardless of what your experience with them is. The Diaspora of the black experience alone tells me that your experience with black women has got to be limited, no matter how many cities, states or countries you have lived in.

There is a wealth of culture, love and personality within each ethicity.
Harriet

@ Joe,

Welcome to the college years, man. Some young ladies are focused and refuse to date at all. Others have found themselves in the same situation as you, jaded because of another man’s treatment of them. Some are straight up Trix who use their goods as predatory traps to get young men like you caught up and tangled in their web of deceit. Either way, you don’t have any control over that. Peep game and keep it moving. Don’t give yourself the kind of excuses to become a miserable human being.

You may have to take a hiatus from dating for a while and just focus on you. Let me throw another nugget at you that I’ve learned in my short lifetime: the way you act is inevitably what you will attract. Now, you’re 18 years old, so that adage tends to be a little more broad for your age group…but once you get to be 23-25, your viewpoints (hopefully) start to change.

I would hate to see you have to learn this lesson the hard way, though. I would hate to see you five years down the road still stuck in the same holding pattern you’re in right now. Re-read what Doris (and everyone else…even Eddie, with a grain of salt, of course) said. Employ some wisdom and get the antennas of misogyny cut off and out of your head.
TheMom’s Cousin

Joe,Joe,Joe — to say that you are not the typical self-centered 18 year old is an understatement. I don’t mean that as a putdown of 18 year-old men. I have two younger brothers and my best friends in high school were male. So, I’ve seen the growth process first-hand. I also have a 14 year-old son who has taken me on numerous roller coaster rides in regards to the ‘fairer sex”. I can’t help but wonder if there is more to the story than you are implying. Women this age change their minds about the men they like as often as they change shoes. You seem to have bought into the old adage that “nice guys finish last”. This cannot be the first time that you have experienced heartbreak. You undoubtedly got over that and this too shall pass. More than a thuggish attitude and lifestyle, any women worth your time appreciates a confident, honest and sincere man. This is the type of woman you want to spend your time with — she’s out there. She’s just preparing herself to accept what you have to give and give you what you need. As most women mature, they want security and reliability. At 18, fun and excitement are in the top five. Those things are still important with age. I am 44 years young and my better half and I still have “the juice”. But just as important is the fact that we click. We are evenly yoked. He is God-sent. I just had to be still and let Him open my eyes. So, have fun as an 18 year-old. Don’t be so quick to label a woman as a girlfriend. That is too much pressure for anyone that age. Explore different types of relationships with members of the opposite sex. Maybe then you will be able to identify what it is you really want from a woman. And as stated before, you should never let ANYONE have so much control over you that they have the ability to make you change who you are.
Joe

That girl wasn’t just any girl, she was the girl. I’ve known her every since i was seven and loved her since i was ten years old. When i first saw her i knew exaclty what type of man i wanted to be. Being the nerd or “nice guy” i couldn’t come up with the confidence to approach her.

Finally i did and things were pretty smooth. the feeling i had was like a emotional high. Finally i had something i always wanted. It felt right. My views on life made since.

What was so wrong with me showing how i felt?

Anyways things came crashing down. I asked her if she had a boyfriend before we started talking and she said yes. Yet she kept talking to me. I called her and sometimes she didn’t answer.

Then something happened that no teen should ever go through which was at prom. I asked her but she said no. She told me that she had something to do that day. Me being a complete idiot went to prom,and guess what? She was there.

There i was with a shell shocked look on my face.
Harriet

Joe,

Sounds like a classic case of the old school Temptations song called “Just My Imagination.” Listen closely to the words, man.

Let’s put this thing in perspective and lay it on the backdrop of your entire life, from birth to whenever you die (hopefully not too soon).

Five years from now, are you still going to be talking about prom? Are you still going to be lamenting over the “girl next door” who probably told you whatever it was you wanted to hear just to keep from hurting your feelings?

I’m sure in hindsight, she probably regrets the heartache this situation caused you. But from your description of this situation, it seems like her affections were never set on you. She may have just wanted you to leave her alone, and in her high school, teenage mindset, she probably thought that was the best way to go about it.

I know it seems like prom is the pinnacle of your entire existence when you’re in high school (it wasn’t for me, but I grew up in a different time, and I was more concerned with winning the basketball/volleyball games and rocking the track meets than putting on a froofy dress for prom). BUT five years from now, it’s only going to be a distant memory.

Please don’t take what I’m about to say the wrong way…but BRUH! It’s time to let it go and move on. My husband would be a little more harsh and say, “Get over it!”
Joe

I’m over it. I’m just saying how low that was to do that. I’ve been through other girls also, but this one was different. It was the one that opened my eyes a bit wider.

Thanks for the comment though.
TheMom’s Cousin

Joe,
The first thing that comes mind after reading your response — having your cake and eating it too. This may seem cruel to say, but maybe she just wasn’t as into you as you were her. Red flags should have gone up when she said she had a boyfriend but continued to talk to you. Maybe you dodged a big one when it went sour. She did it to him, maybe she would have done it to you. I believe in being blunt and no I don’t know this girl. I had a similar thing happen to me regarding my prom. I was suppose to go with this guy who was in college and a week before the prom he said he couldn’t go. No explanation. I had bought everything so I went alone. A few days later, I found out he had gotten back together with his old girlfriend. And yes, it took a long time for me to trust guys again. I did my fair share of doggin’ fellas after that. But in hindsight I realize all of the time wasted, not to mention the decent guys I hurt who had nothing to do with what had happened to me. One is now a doctor and another is a professional football player. I love my life as it is now, but I can’t help but wonder how different it would have been had I given one of these guys the time and respect they deserved. Just don’t find yourself in the position and playing “what if” due to some failed {or successful} attempted at being a thug.
Joe

Yeah red flags came up when I heard her say that. And even though we still talked I kinda distanced myself from her. I started to test her a little bit too with txt messages and what not. I felt something telling me something wasn’t right, but ignored it sometimes. Which was stupid by me. I guess i was blind.
Joe

From what I’ve read from these posts you guys really had some good advice. Right now I’m trying to get myself together first before getting into another relationship. I think I’m starting to get it now.

I’d rather be the nice guy and be true to myself then become a thug. What if I do get into a relationship as a thug?

Not only would I be fooling myself, but the women I would be going out with. I think for now I’ll stay on the good side.
TheMom’s Cousin

Joe, I think you made the right decision. I wish you all of the luck in the world. From the exchanges that have occurred, I can tell you are a decent guy. I wish I had a daughter to introduce you to (smile}. AS FRIENDS!!!!!!! Be careful with your heart and I would love an update.

Wishing you peace
Harriet

@ TheMom’s Cousin

“I did my fair share of doggin’ fellas after that. But in hindsight I realize all of the time wasted, not to mention the decent guys I hurt who had nothing to do with what had happened to me.”

If that ain’t the truth, I don’t know what is. Joe, both men and women have the propensity to fall into these kinds of emotional traps. After getting my heart broken a couple of times, I found myself treating other brothers the way I’d been treated in bad relationships…and they were good guys! They respected and loved me, but I was too bitter and blind to see it.

That’s a huge reason why I wrote off dating for about 5 years. I’m not saying what I did was the norm, but it worked for me. You would be surprised…when I said I was going to take time out to get to know the Lord and myself better, men started coming out of the woodwork! They were putting in resumes left and right! But I was serious about my commitment to myself to allow healing to take place within my emotions. Otherwise I was gonig to find myself on another roller coaster ride of emotions that would take even more time and effort to heal from.

I think you’re wise to chill from the dating scene for a while.
SoldiersMom

Joe;
I am the “Other Woman” for a married African American general surgeon & trauma surgeon, father of four. It is not a cute situation. He married an up-&-coming girl from his neighbohood, a little family money, a little older & heavier, but hey she was light-skinned & all that. Four beautiful children.
Thing is, she has no respect for him. All this time he has provided for her & their children, but he ain’t sh*t because he has strayed from the straight & narrow occasionally. She’s on it like a pit-bull, won’t ever let him live it down– what a dog he is to seek the company of women who admire him, rather than those like her, who dis him. He just wants his due respect for the part he plays saving lives in the community.
This is the advice I give to my own kids: Reach your own goals. Then, when you have arrived at your goal in life, take you a spouse who seems genuine, & who has a passion for you. I don’t tell them to live like a bachelor all their young years; just use protection. Marry when you have achieved your personal goals; else you will marry beneath you.
For myself, I don’t know the future. I may die; I may live in agony; I may right myself with the help of other folks.
See, everyone has young loves, & it’s no shame. Just don’t make it legal, & for God sake, don’t make it biological.
Anna Nimous

@ Soldier’s Mom,

Ummm, where to begin…oh, I know:

You are hearby banned from giving advice until you get your act together! She’s on him like a pit bull because he “seeks the company of women who admire him?” Can you sound any crazier?!? She’s on him like a pitbull because he’s a CHEATER! She won’t let him live it down because HE’S STILL CHEATING! Are you their couples therapist? If not, you only have his word to go on – and he’s already demonstrated his moral fiber to you.

If she’s that much of a witch then he can always divorce her. Unless of course, he is afraid of child support/alimony. And depending on where you live that alimony may be increased because of his infidelity. What a gem you’ve decided to lay down with. Your kids must be super proud.

You have children who look up to you – stop showing them how NOT to do things and find your self respect!
Joe

Hey guys, lately I’ve been going through some positve changes. Right now I’m working on trying to bring back the old Joe. I don’t dog out women as much as I use to, but it’s still a working progress. Also I’ve tried not to listen to a lot of rap music that degrade women in any way shape or form. I even got rid of my dreads and got a nice simple hair cut.

On New Years eve night instead of partying out with friends, I went to church. I gotta admit it feels good to be the old Joe again. I’m just trying to think postive instead of negative. And if a woman can’t accept a man like me for me, well it’s her lost not mine.

A maturer and wiser Joe.
Harriet

*Applause*

Joe, you get a standing ovation in my book. You have officially gone from a G to a Gent in one week flat. Congrats on responding to the ugly things of life in a mature manner. I think the new year brought a healthy change to your life.

Thanks for the update!
Joe

Hey it’s me again, but this time I would like to say something to the fellas. If any men out there have been through or are going through what I been through I would like to say this. Forget about the girl/woman for the moment. Look in the mirror mentally not physically and ask yourself do you like what you see. Do you really like being a thug?

What I learned is that instead of me trying to be a thug, I was really bringing myself down to her level. Thus making it harder to get over a girl/woman. As men, do we want to give up who we are to a woman who don’t appreciate us?

That’s just a thought to ponder on when you know you’ve been the best person you can be in a relationship.

You don’t have to be a thug.

Joe.
Joe

Hey it’s me again, but this time I have a question.

With me being in college and all I’ve noticed that there’s a wide variety of women. The thing that I want to know is why aren’t women up front about their status? Some women are married, some have kids and some have boy-friends. Yet they flirt with men like their interested. In my opinion women in these categorys have no business flirting with men. Thus the guy who the woman are flirting with gets hurt.

Can we please be a little more up front with people?
Harriet

Hello again, Joe.

I hate to tell you this, but what you described is not just a college phenomena. Unfortunately, it’s like that everywhere. You can read more about it under the BMWK article, “Flirting: Is it harmless or disrespectful?”

Here’s the link: http://blackandmarriedwithkids.com/2008/12/19/bmwk-anniversary-classic-flirting-is-it-harmless-or-disrespectful/

It’s good to hear from you again! Hope you had a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and a focused attitude towards your studies this semester!
Joe

Thanks for the comment. I had a great christmas and new years!

The link helped me out a lot. Even though it’s wrong to flirt with someone and have no intentions to be with them, it’s also wrong to judge people as well. By me saying that women who have kids or are married should not flirt is just judgemental. I mean I really don’t know their situation. Before I get all judgemental and all, I should look a little closer at the person.

P.S. My niece loves the old me again!!!
Harriet

Awww! That’s so good to hear, Joe! I’m glad your niece can see the better you now! Congrats!

You’re right…there’s no need to be judgmental.
Jay’O

Harriet wrote:

“I work on a college campus (an HBCU at that), and I’ve seen this pattern a million times: ” and…
“girl takes boy for granted, breaks his heart, boy uses that as an excuse to either A) go the homosexual route or B) go the thug/playa/pimp/misogynist route.”

What the hell have you been smoking??? You say you’ve seen young men who are obviously straight and heterosexual turn gay because they didn’t have success with a girlfirend???????

Hey – why don’t you wake up and come into the 21st century – somebody doesn’t become gay because they break up with a girl! People that are gay are gay and those that are straight (and go with girls and therefore have the opportunity to get dumped by girls) are just that: straight! You act like being Gay is a conscience decision a guy makes when he’s mad at women. With all the hate in the world why would any sane brother WANT TO BE GAY??? Obviosuly they are who they are and don’t just become gay on a whim like this so they can be hated by their families, friends, and strangers like you.

Your incredible ignorance makes me think you probably do work at a college (HBCU) but as the crazy old cafeteria lady!