Why Her?

Relationships

by Lamar Tyler | on May 12th, 2009 | 34 comments

by Tiya Cunningham-Sumter

A close friend called to ask me a very interesting question. She wanted to know if I thought a man would marry a woman that he felt was argumentative, talked smart and had a little trouble letting the man be the man in a relationship.

Her reasons for asking this question were honest and sincere. She had been seeing someone for a couple of years, while neither of them were exclusive she could see herself settling down with him and he expressed to her that he hoped to settle down soon. The guy thought she was great too. Which she is, she’s strong, funny, pretty, independent, giving and honest.

Well the guy told her that he decided to propose to another woman that he had also been seeing. Naturally she was upset and after initially just accepting his decision, decided to call him back and ask him what made him choose the other woman over her. He explained it like this, the other woman wasn’t argumentative, her mouth wasn’t flip and she did everything he asked her to do without a fight. He said that was really the only difference between the two, because he liked everything else about my friend. See my friend speaks her mind, she’s sassy (even she’ll admit it) and she comes from a past where she was never in control so now she’s quick to let it be known that she’s in control now.

But this situation has her questioning if she should be doing something different. Like changing her attitude and watching what she says and how she says it, becoming more submissive and she’s even thinking about surrendering some of her control so that in her next relationship, her man will feel like he’s the man.

Now I wanted to pose the question to the men on the network. What was it about your wife that made you choose her? And are men really turned off by a woman who speaks her mind, may be a little argumentative and has a problem with a man being in total control? Is my friend right to think that should start changing some of her behaviors?

By Tiya Cunningham-Sumter of Life Editing, The Black Wives’ Club and an Administrator with Still Dating My Spouse

About the author

Lamar and Ronnie Tyler are the creators of the award-winning blog BlackandMarriedWithKids.com . They also are behind the Amazon.com bestselling DVDs Happily Ever After: A Positive Image of Black Marriage, You Saved Me and Men Ain’t Boys that explores manhood in the African American community. The Tylers are also the proud parents of four children.

Duane

She listen and had no problem with me taking the lead on major issue
http://www.mrkingjames.blogspot.com King James

Again…
<– not married.

While it’s WAY too easy to say dude wanted a woman with no backbone and women have minds and should be able to speak them…

I think that wouldn’t be dealing with the main issues.
I wonder if dude felt uncomfortable telling your friend about these things during the relationship. They seemed to be pretty upfront… ie.. the open relationship and him keeping it real when she asked later on.

In answering the question some… what’s attractive to me is women whom have leadership and followship in balance. If you don’t like something I do want you to speak up, but I don’t want ‘speaking your mind’ to mean you are hurt feelings/give comments without tact in the name of ‘being you.’

But… this relationship seems ‘different’ to me anyway.

King Jamess last blog post..I’m OPEN
MG

It’s real simple, who wants to be with someone for the rest of their life who is argumentative and is hard to deal with. My wife can have a smart mouth just like anybody but I don’t have to deal with it all the time when it becomes a headace.
ruffyy

This problem might not take on the importance it would if you were to remain a couple. But if you were thinking about having kids then there is a problem. You do not want your daughter to learn disrespect for men from their mother. As the song says the daughter is watching the mother. if the wife is disrespectful of the husband, discounts his opinions, belittles him because of an unaddressed emotional issue the daughter is a blank slate and might believe this is the gospel truth on a man/woman relationship. The 1970′s sitcom attitude of the Black woman was concieved in truth and stereotype. I feel Girlfriends is not helpful either. If you were to marry this girl you have to establish a discuss/compromise private time out if there are children involved and come back with a strong united decision and stick to it. Otherwise an argumentative person of any gender is having their pleasure center satisfied. Winning an argument is like an emotional orgasm. There’s not much difference between Fornication and fighting.

ruffyy
ruffyy@gmail.com
ruffyy

Symbiotic/host relationship. Perfect!!!!

ruffyy
ruffyy@gmail.com
…

This is not real complicated. Someone go overboard. Nothing is wrong with expressing your opinion, but sometimes it can reach a point where it is extra or disrespectful. No one wants to deal with that forever.
http://www.djednice.com DJ Ed Nice

MG said it best… There is a difference between speaking your mind and being too aggressive…

DJ Ed Nices last blog post..THE MAN RULES!
http://www.blackwivesclub.wordpress.com Tiya’

Thanks Men. These are all such great points, marriage is supposed to be forever so I guess most people would prefer being with someone who makes things easier.

Tiya’s last blog post..Nip It In The Bud
Tooraw

Men like women who are supportive and loyal. We already have a difficult time in the professional world so we dont need the aggravation when we walk into our own house. Everything does not have to be an argument and no one whats to hear a woman’s smart mouth on a daily basis. Me personally, I would never be with a woman that argues constantly. It will take away from my spiritual fitness.
ruffyy

If marriage was forever then when we took the vow something in the brain would activate and you would feel no emotion for anyone else but your spouse. It doesn’t. We remain men after marriage and there are still attractive ladies out there. They leave the house lookin’ good, smellin’ good because they know they still got it. Or maybe we should become like the Muslims. Cover her from head to toe. But if I were a Muslim then I could effectively shut my comfort wife/wife up with a few licks of the cane in my house or out in the square.

But in America women know if they get in your face and start some stuff they can finish it by calling 5.0. who will proceed to put the man out of the house even if it belongs to him. So women can play the argumentative game and win. MEN LOSE!!!

ruffyy
ruffyy@gmail.com
http://www.scritchandscratch.com/blog VEe!

My wife? We’re able to communicate.

Turned off by a woman who speaks her mind:
- No, absolutely not. I don’t think anyone really wants to be with someone without their own thoughts.

A little argumentative?
- On a consistent basis, yeah that gets tired after 2-3 months.

a problem with a man being in total control
- I don’t think many men really expect to be in total control, well that’s just me personally. I think now a days, well depends on who you’re with, I don’t think it is about control but more about interdependence.

If your friend is argumentative to the point where it borders on disrespect then I would advise to rethink her approach. But she shouldn’t necessarily change herself, maybe their was something else that he did not reveal to her. After all, did she know that this other near-identical woman was a prospect for marriage?

VEe!s last blog post..Colored Girls Rock!
rj

I am surprised that no one sees a problem with this man seeing both of these women at the same time and them accepting it. It was like he was playing eenie meenie mynee mo. This woman should be glad that he didn’t want to marry her he doesn’t seem like he was really committed to either one of them and in no way does he seem ready for marriage. Choosing a life partner should not be based on the fact that she doesn’t argue and does what I say. What if this woman does a 360 after she gets a ring on her finger. Will he throw in the towel. In marriage there will be a lot of ups and downs and many couples go through stages when all they do is argue, but these are test to see if you can weather the storm. Yes, your friend may need to see what sets her off and how she can change for her and not for a relationship and why she even accepted being in a open relationship with this man in the first place. Neither one of them said anything about the main ingredient a marriage needs to survive and that is love. Because when it gets rough you know that love will pull the two of you through.
Anna

rj said:
I am surprised that no one sees a problem with this man seeing both of these women at the same time and them accepting it. It was like he was playing eenie meenie mynee mo. This woman should be glad that he didn’t want to marry her he doesn’t seem like he was really committed to either one of them and in no way does he seem ready for marriage.
~~~~~~~~Thank You.

My brother always told me that if you are having trouble making a decision betwween two, neither one of them are “the one”. LOL.
Raven

rj,

You are on point.
Pingback: Why Her Pt. 2 | Black And Married With Kids
http://www.mrkingjames.blogspot.com King James

RJ,

I think a few folks touched on that, me being one. I didn’t dwell b/c it wasn’t that question, I guess.

I’m not sure if ‘love’ in the emperical ingredient in a marriage, though. But that’s another topic for another day.
T. Rogers

One of the main lesson’s in Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War” is that war is costly and to be avoided if at all possible. When war is chosen as the path you need to know you have already failed because you allowed the situation to get to that point. Similarly, in a relationship arguments and disagreements can erode the very foundation of your relationship. If you decide to take issue with something you better make sure it is worth it. But some women just want to be combative just for the heck of it. No man with any ounce of sense will stay with a woman like that long term.

I fight enough battles when I walk out the door every morning. I am not trying to come home and fight for my manhood and my position in the house. I would be alone before I put up with a situation like that. Women who can nurture and build up men are like ice cold spring water on a summer day. Those kinds of women will always be in demand.
Harriet

wow, t rogers…GREAT point!!!
ruffyy

ROGERS, YOU DA MAN!!!!
keez

blah..blah..Man needs this…Men need that…Shouldnt it be the other way around since men are suppose to be stronger…or at least equal…I speak my mind and I will never stop…women been held down long enough…At the end of the day…I better my man and he betters me…if he was never challenged he wouldnt progress..As I…We argue but respect that we have different opinions at times…do you actually think Michelle Obama keeps her mouth shut???? Behind every strong man is a strong woman….
TJ

I have to comment on Tj who tried to poitn out that this man was playing them both. People get it twisted about dating. These two had an open relationship and they knew each other were dating other people. There is nothing wrong with that. The problem is when you say you are single and you are not. Thats when its a problem
http://www.blackwivesclub.wordpress.com Tiya’

I also didn’t have a problem with him dating two people, because my friend explained to me that he was honest about that from the very beginning. Dating is really about seeing what your options are. So as long as you are honest and upfront, it’s better than just playing both of the women.

Tiya’s last blog post..Why Marriage Is Sexy
Anonymous

I agree with RJ…However If a man is really interested in a woman he’d do everything within his ability to date her,and her only….but if it doesn’t work out he should move on.Some people choose to be in opened relationships either because their not ready to be in a serious relationship or they just want to see if the “grass is greener on the other side”.In that case leaving the other person behind.Keep in mind there will always be someone better than the next but if you decide to be in a serious relationship and you love the person..are you going to leave them to find someone better?NO If you truly love that person you’ll stay with them,No matter what,because if that’s the case everyday of the week you’ll be stuck with a different woman,and by the time you reach 60 the dating scene will most likely be over for you.I totally disagree with the statement that “nothings wrong with having an opened relationship”because while open relationships are for some people they aren’t suitable for others,sometimes by having these kind of relationships your not only only setting yourself up for emotional distress but setting your potential partner up for failure.Its one thing if you’re in an “exclusive relationship”and the person cheats on you behind your back but its another when you agree to an opened relationship and feelings start to develop,because I guarantee you someone will get hurt….I’ve seen it happen….But after all,they tolerated that type of behavior so what more could they expect?It seems that there’s more to that story than the guy told your girlfriend,because there’s going to be a time in his life when he’ll get into disagreements with his wife,so in that case I guess he’ll just have to get a divorce and find someone else..pathetic…While no woman/man should put up with a person’s nagging and disrespect on a daily basis…do not expect your significant other to be a “walking doormat”that’s why people were made to be and think differently.I have had my share of women/men that
nag..so its not about the person’s gender,but the person his/herself….Your friend should count her lucky stars because she deserves the best and one day will be treated like the queen she is.God Bless.
ruffyy

Men really have no defense against a woman who likes to argue and verbally assault a man to anger and physical violence. It’s the conception that being a man holds the responsibility of being lord and master and having the power to shut up their women and ultimately render his will come hell or high water. The very freedoms Martin Luther King rallied for has come back to bite men on the ass. In the recognition of civil freedoms for all you should concievably be able to speak your mind with no verbal or physical recurpussion(sp). Men: have you ever gotten into a verbal altercation with a woman in your own (name on the deed, name on the lease) house gave a little shove because she got into your face with the “be a man…” stab? When the Po-Po comes who leaves or leaves with mister click. Women argue because they know they have the power. They also use the power of the mouth to taunt and tease and shame men to violence. (You ain’t nothin’ and ain’t nevah gonnah be nothin’ yo triflin’….) To me men need to have some rights of their own.

ruffyy
ruffyy@gmail.com
ruffyy

as with all dating you cannot really know what a person is really like until that ring. The ultimate gotcha moment.

ruffyy
ruffyy@gmail.com
ruffyy

Dating two people at once is like playing double Russian roulette with your physical and emotional health. Date one person and burn it out and chalk up the relationship as experience. Learn human nature one person at a time. Get checked out periodically. Some diseases can take a decade to rear it’s ugly head, usually when you have found ‘the one’ or maybe married. It’s not your fathers dating situation anymore.

rufyy
ruffyy@gmail.com
http://www.sheeralmshouse.blogspot.com Sheer Almshouse

I hear what you say about the open relationship and both accepting that. I agree with a few things already said.

As RJ indicated, the man is not really ready for marriage. You dont play eenie meenie mine moe to pick a partner. But I say that neither was she. I think her issue is that she feels a little rejected because she wasn’t chosen. That is understandable.

But would she feel better if she were chosen to be proposed to by a man who up until the proposal was dating another person?

I can understand that you want to keep your options open especially if you are looking for the best fit…but somehow… TWO YEARS seems like a whole lot of time.

Men do this all the time. They date multiple women and pick the least combative one to marry. But is this the kind of man you desire?

If you do have issues from being passive or abused in the past, a life partner will call you out when you are going overboard and insist that you get help. A man who is really into commitment does not act this way.

I can bet that when his new wife starts to be something other than he finds delightful, he will begin dating alongside his marriage.

But ultimately, only she knows if she was a little too aggressive. Maybe there was an issue in the power balance and she felt she had to struggle to have her say. A good and healthy relationship accepts each person as an equal partner, contributing different strengths and weaknesses.

So I say, wish him and his fiance every bit of happiness and move right on to find your own sister. Please stay away from open dating… any relationship worth it’s mettle does have an exclusive date. And unless there are reasons like distance, they do become exclusive way before two years. When you do find one so worthy, pick you battles wisely.

Sheer Almshouses last blog post..One less day
ruffyy

Nobody said finding you mate is going to be easy. As I told my daughter you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince. Even then there are no guarantees. Everyones in the dark.

ruffyy
ruffyy@gmail.com
experiencedblkman

WELL, THE PROBLEM IS SPENDING THAT MUCH TIME WITHOUT BEING COMMITED, OR DISCUSSING ANY FUTURE PLANS. WOMEN KNOW AS WELL AS MEN, THE ATTRACTION WITHIN A FEW MINUTES OF MEETING. HE WAS HAPPY TO PUT UP WITH HER ATTITUDE WHEN IT WAS GOOD FOR HIM, SO NOW THE COW HAS BEEN MILKED THERE ISN’T ANYTHING LEFT, HE CHOSE SOMEONE HE FEELS WILL BE MORE PASSIVE AND LESS ARGUMENTIVE. LADYS DON’T KEEP ENTERING TOXIC RELATIONSHIPS THAT DRAINS YOU AND LEAVE YOU WANDERING WHY HE CHOSE HER OVER YOU, YOU REALLY KNOW WHY,IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HER BUT EVERYTHING WITH YOU
http://CHARLMCGH5@AOL.COM experiencedblkman

TO THE COMMENT ABOVE HE WAS ACTUALLY PLAYING HIMSELF, DATING TWO WOMEN DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO REALLY KNOW THAT PERSON

experiencedblkmans last blog post..Do New Scanners Violate Privacy?
blacktastic49

frst of all the beginning of this has to do with not what type of woman this gentleman was dealing with, the real question is why was he in a relaionship with two women, and did both of the women know about each other? The one mistake that men and women make is not being honest from the jump! It is so simple to do because then you give the other peron the option on whether or not they want to be or remain in that type of situaion. We as women give men that don’t deserve any credit at all, all he credit in the world! The guy should have made up his mind on what type of woman he wanted to marry before he even started dating, and then once he realized what he was looking for then and only then that was the type of woman he should have been looking for. The lame excuse about a strong vs. weak woman is the weakest of all. Stop making this always about what a man wants ladies because you have to remember that even if a man looks at you, likes what he sees, wants to be with you or even wants to marry you he will be able to do none of that if YOU don’t choose HIM!!!!
blacktastic49

and also what is this about surrendering authority to a man just because he is a man, and it makes him feel better? You only surrender unto a man when he first of all holds the true position of head of household and handles the business of the family which means that every decision that is made right, wrong or indifferent falls on the shoulders of that “MAN”. It really upsets me that men have a problem with strong, independent thinking women who get it done on a daily basis, because it is due to the fact that we have been forced into the position of head of household, decision maker, doctor, lawyer, and indian chief and not by choice! I think that what men don’t realize is that we really don’t want to take on that role, but we are forced to because our men really don’t have a true understanding of what it takes to run a household, nor do they really want the pressure of it all, so what else are we left to do but get it done because we have noone else to do it for us! And the saddest part of all is that when you have a woman like that, it takes a very strong and patient man to get a woman to even feel comfortable to slide into the position that was originally meant for her to hold. So tell me what man out there is really ready, willing or even able to hold that spot?
http://www.newwwmama.blogspot.com NewwwMama

Touche! I think this hit the issue and the answer on the head!

Sheer Almshouse said:
I hear what you say about the open relationship and both accepting that. I agree with a few things already said.

As RJ indicated, the man is not really ready for marriage. You dont play eenie meenie mine moe to pick a partner. But I say that neither was she. I think her issue is that she feels a little rejected because she wasn’t chosen. That is understandable.

But would she feel better if she were chosen to be proposed to by a man who up until the proposal was dating another person?

I can understand that you want to keep your options open especially if you are looking for the best fit…but somehow… TWO YEARS seems like a whole lot of time.

Men do this all the time. They date multiple women and pick the least combative one to marry. But is this the kind of man you desire?

If you do have issues from being passive or abused in the past, a life partner will call you out when you are going overboard and insist that you get help. A man who is really into commitment does not act this way.

I can bet that when his new wife starts to be something other than he finds delightful, he will begin dating alongside his marriage.

But ultimately, only she knows if she was a little too aggressive. Maybe there was an issue in the power balance and she felt she had to struggle to have her say. A good and healthy relationship accepts each person as an equal partner, contributing different strengths and weaknesses.

So I say, wish him and his fiance every bit of happiness and move right on to find your own sister. Please stay away from open dating… any relationship worth it’s mettle does have an exclusive date. And unless there are reasons like distance, they do become exclusive way before two years. When you do find one so worthy, pick you battles wisely.
Visitor

Okay, I’m sorry. I think this is a legitimate TOPIC, but not situation.

If you decide to be in an OPEN RELATIONSHIP for TWO YEARS, you do NOT get to complain about the outcome. Set some boundaries. Love yourself better. I have a hard time believing this story about this assertive woman who couldn’t assert herself in the most basic and fundemental way in a relationship. I am worth exclusivity and if you want to continue to see me, that is the condition. I fear for future generations of women who are not taught this, fundementally.

And yes, men want women who are PLEASANT to be around. They have to imagine you as the mother of their children and someone that is going to affirm you publicly and privately. Shoot, I am a woman and my job at work is hard enough. My husband and I both value a quiet and peaceful home that is a sanctuary from the crazy of the world. This is why I tell people to marry their best friend. That is someone who you like and enjoy for who they are. You RESPECT them and they would NEVER consent to a open relationship with your because they ACTUALLY care about you and your well-being.

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