Big Pimpin’ (Steve McNair)
6 July 2009
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98 Comments
by Harriet
“I know that you’se a pimp and wanna pimp hard; but in your pimpin‘ you can never pimp God.” ~ Canton Jones
I had a lot of respect for the athletic prowess of Steve McNair. The man was a trailblazer, a leader on the field, and his passion for his craft was incomparable. I’m saying this to outline the fact that he was great at what he did. But his untimely and unfortunate homicide on the 4th of July speaks to a dichotomy within this man that must be addressed.
In this article, I am neither vilifying nor disrespecting his memory. I’m simply discussing how tomorrow is not promised to ANY of us. I doubt Mr. McNair knew that his final breath would be taken on the 4th of July, 2009. I wonder if he would have done things differently had he known. Would he have appreciated his wife more? Would he have told his four children that he loved them from the bottom of his heart? It is speculated that the condo he was shot to death in was one shared with his girlfriend. I truly hope that is not the case, but if it is, Mr. McNair was definitely engaged in what I like to call “Big Pimpin‘.”
As searing hot bullets were assaulting multiple parts of his body, with one shot piercing his head with tragic finality, would he want his death to be remembered by the allegation that he died in the condo of his alleged girlfriend? His GIRLFRIEND, not his wife! That speculation alone brought tears to my eyes more than anything else.
We all take chances. All of us, at some point in our lives, have tried to pimp the system. Personally, I have tried to maintain my integrity, but growing up, I was prone to bouts of lying and stealing. If someone asked me, “Did you breathe today?” I would suck in a big breath and tell them, “Naw…I didn’t breathe today.” I used to take my dad’s slot machine quarters he stored in big apple cider bottles. What’s a quarter here and a quarter there? I’ll never get caught (whatever).
Let’s not even talk about my sexual “escapades” when I was in college that could have made me diseased or worse. I knew better than to treat my body with such contempt, but I was like a Spike Lee project…I had to have it.
I thank God that my “big pimpin‘” didn’t garner the results I deserved. I could have been killed by a careless driver while crossing the street with my freshly stolen quarters to get to the candy truck in my neighborhood. I could have contracted the HIV virus in college. What would have been my legacy? “Here lies a thief and a liar with no self control…” I thank God that He gave me grace to see another day, to see deliverance from lying, stealing, and irresponsible sex. I get to experience marriage and motherhood in a way that only He could have orchestrated.
I grieve for the family of Steve McNair. His wife, children, parents…the man was only THIRTY SIX YEARS OLD! If the news reports are true (you can’t always believe what you read these days), I grieve for the fact that he didn’t get the chance to realize his big pimpin‘ was not only painful to all involved, but DEADLY.
What are your past (or present) experiences with “big pimpin‘?” How did you stop (or will you stop)? How have you experienced the grace of God (if you don’t believe in Him, how have you experienced second chances) in your life after knowingly doing wrong?
God bless!
~ Harriet
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Hopefully the truth comes out. My prayers are with both families. Regardless of their relationship it seems like a series of unfortunate and unneccesary events.
Great article…my sentiments exactly. Nevertheless, my prayers go out to his family and I pray that lessons are learned from this tragedy.
God bless!
My heart really goes out to the children. To find out that your father is dead then also to discover he was with another woman who was not his wife. Sad situation.
Lamars last blog post..Daily Inspiration 07/06/2009
i agree completely with this article. unfortunately in society it has become more accepted to have a wife and girlfriend. i am a big steve mcnair fan. not of the football player, but the man. i have read about where he came from and how he gave back to the community and he always seemed to have a smile on his face. i hate that ultimately this may be the lasting memory with his wife and sons. we as black people, black men specifically have to step up and show our young men how to treat women. this has been going on for far too long. not only in our community, but in the whole world. my family has a number of these cases. we have to start at home with our sons, nephews, cousins, and friends. lets lead by example and not be lead. please let this be a wake up call for us all that no matter all the good you do, do the wrong thing at the wrong time and that’s what you will be remembered for.
I agree with all of you. What I found very strange and unacceptable (at least in my house) was the fact that he rented an apartment with a buddy in the city. What??? You are a married father of four with a lovely ranch that you share with your family. You are also retired from the NFL, so why did you need to rent a condo/apartment in the city? I heart bleeds for his wife and especially the children. As someone who has lost both parents, I know exactly what they are going through. They along with Michael Jackson’s children are just too young to go thru this world without their “Daddy!”
. . . I’m still stuck. I found the title of the post weird and awkward. I understand that popular culture is in love with the word but hopefully people are really clear about what pimping is and what it is not. People tend to take words or terms and redefine them, make them more palatable but it just sounds weird like the constant usage of gangster in pop music and then there’s that infamous word redefined as a term of endearment to some.
I say all that to say I don’t think Steve McNair was probably not a pimp or Big Pimpin. I know the article is not calling him a pimp, but I’m just saying. The intention here is not to disrespect McNair, but why big pimpin?
VEe!s last blog post..Thursday Sketches That Smile
This is an interesting read, but I froze when I read the following: “I thank God that my “big pimpin‘” didn’t garner the results I deserved. I could have been killed by a careless driver while crossing the street with my freshly stolen quarters to get to the candy truck in my neighborhood. I could have contracted the HIV virus in college.”
I just find it strange that the writer believes she ‘deserved’ HIV or to be killed because she stole a few quarters.
I also wonder, if the writer thinks McNair deserved to be shot?
Just my two cents…..
Danielles last blog post..Speaking Well of Everybody
As the author of this article, let me first and foremost state (once again) that it was not written to vilify or disrespect this man’s memory. Unfortunately for him and his family, there is now a void of unanswered questions looming, and the only two people that can possibly respond are now dead.
To answer the comments of Vee and Danielle, I did not use “Big Pimpin’” as a noun, but a verb. I think it’s unfortunate that Mr. McNair perished the way he did, but based on his alleged activity, the stage was set. Did I deserve to die? No, but my activity certainly didn’t set the stage for me to remain under the kind of divine protection I strongly believe in. Did Mr. McNair deserve to die? No, but his activity certainly didn’t set the stage for a hedge of divine protection to cover him as it could have.
Unfortunately, none of us know when the hour will come for us to take our last breaths. The point in this article was to outline that fact and Mr. McNair was a perfect example of it.
Harriets last blog post..Who Am I Trying to Impress?
Wow! This is a great article. The best thing about it is that we can all relate to what she said. We all have our own problems that we struggle with, but after you realize that what you are doing is wrong, how do it fix it? If you were to take your last breath within the next ten seconds, how will you be remembered?
@ Rojo,
Wow, you outlined my sentiments exactly (with much fewer words)! Thanks! :o)
Harriets last blog post..Who Am I Trying to Impress?
I get the point of the article, I was just wondering why call it Big Pimpin? Whether it is used as a verb, noun or adjective isn’t my issue and doesn’t really make a difference. I thought it was odd that this article would be framed around “Big Pimpin” . . . What are your past (or present) experiences with “big pimpin‘?”
Considering the point of the article the phrase Big Pimpin’ seems awkward, that’s it.
————-
VEe!s last blog post..Thursday Sketches That Smile
OK, Vee. I understand where you’re coming from.
Obviously “pimp” in its most basic form is defined as a person who solicits clients for a prostitute. We all understand that.
As an intransitive verb (check http://www.merriam-webster.com for the reference), “pimp (ing)(ed)” is defined as follows: to work as a pimp, OR, to make use of often dishonorably for one’s own gain or benefit.
That latter definition is definitely the point I’m making. Although I realize “pimp” is an overused colloquialism of the street, in this particular instance, based on the definition offered, it is a perfect illustration of what Mr. McNair was doing (and what we all have done at some point in our lives).
I’m not trying to make friends here. I can only call it like I see it, based on my life’s experiences and beliefs.
As far as Mr. McNair is concerned, unfortunately, it just is what it is.
Harriets last blog post..Who Am I Trying to Impress?
Excellent points, when tragic events occur in the lives of other people we naturally get a little “pointy” ie: That’s what happens when, that’s what you get; I like the way you put yourself out there, in doing that it caused me to think of how I am a beneficiary of God’s mercy. In 2005 I was speeding on a TX Highway at 187 MPH in the early hours of the morning. In all fairness I could have lost my life or gotten arrested for excessive speeding. Neither of which happened and shortly thereafter I got relieved of my two wheeled treasure. Family and friends considered it a blessing because they knew of my need for speed, but I was heated. It took me a minute to reflect and see where I was heading, and had it not been for that intervention I could have been like my friend who was riding his bike at excessive speed and ran into the back of a car and lost his life. All that to say I could have died in that foolishness, but I’m still here. What I get out of a tragic death like this is to think of how in spite of all our foolishness we are still alive, now that we’ve acknowledged that, its time to live for the One Who keeps us!
Great discussion. It is very unfortunate and I do send up prayers for the McNair family. We do have to be careful with the choices we make, obviously and I am sure if we knew the outcomes first we would choose differently. Unfortunately most of us are flesh-led and we tend to do what feels good, regardless of of who we may be hurting. None of us are without sin, and we have to continue to pray for one another. It is so sad that out of all of the things McNair did on the field and for the community this is how he will be remembered.
Is Sex or just sex with White women the Black Man’s Kryptonite? Is Steve dead b/c he slept with a white woman or b/c he slept a woman that wasn’t his wife?
My homegirl and I are having this debate on Jungle Fever and she seems to think that it serves Steve right leaving his black wife and their black children for this waitress of middle-eastern descent. I just look at it as guy who got caught up in the grass is greener on the other side fallacy. Yes, in McNair’s instance he was brought down by white/middle-eastern woman. But, a hispanic woman took out mark sanford. Black women took out mike tyson. white women took out bill clinton. Eve convinced adam that if he ate the apple she’d given some pussy. David and Bathesheba. Abraham and Hagar. Solomon and his 1200 wives and concubines engaged in idolatry and thus his kingdom lost favor with GOD. Samson and Delilah. so the common denominator is their obsession with sex. I don’t blame the woman as much as I blame the man for not being a man and saying I’m gonna do what’s right. I don’t care about your p*ssy! But, because this is a racist society and b/c sex and sports are the only areas where it’s acceptable for black men to act like “real men,” we pay a higher price and face more scrutiny and derision for our sexual foibles and shortcomings from blacks and whites alike. This is a especially true for a high profile black man and no black men have a higher profile than black male athletes.
Harriet, I think you stated it superbly!!!! It is indeed a tragedy and a very unfortunate event. My thoughts and prayers are with all three families, His…hers…and hers! (wow). I think Rojo and you Harriet summed it all up by saying that we all have things in our past that could have taken us out of here….(BUT GOD)! His Grace is certainly sufficient. What do we do with all of the second chances to correct the things that we know are wrong in our lives. How many times did Steve and this young woman “almost cut it off”..but continued? How many times have we “almost stopped”, but yet continued and continue to take the mercy of God for granted. Wow…this hits close to home for me for several reasons. All I can say is that God is a Gracious and everlasting God. He is also sovereign…and does not make mistakes. I am grateful for many many things..but His Grace, Mercy, Forgiveness, and a chance to get it right is enough. May the souls of these find peace. Let us remember not to focus so much on the wrong in this situation..but the cause behind it..the root..We all have free will I know..but Demons of Lust, Sex and Instant Gratification are very very real people..seeking to devour!!
Stingy,
I’m a little nervous about responding to your comment. LOL I think if we’re going to make this an all out biblical discussion, then let the record show that no man or woman is immune to the issue of sin.
If we’re going to make it a racial argument based on what took place in the Bible, we should know that Jesus died for all, and He didn’t pick and choose what color or ethnicity He would save. If that’s the case, when sin entered the world, it would have only affected one specific group of people.
NO ONE is immune. I truly, truly could care less about the ethnic background of the young lady Mr. McNair was dealing with. If we’re going to point out an issue with him (or anyone else, including you and I, for that matter), the issue is a sin issue. Whether adultery or stealing quarters, it’s all equally egregious to God, which makes His grace and mercy all the more amazing to me.
This kind of tragedy happens everyday. Just last weekend my cousin’s baby’s mother (excuse the ghetto-ness of the statement, but that’s really the case) was shot to death by her live in boyfriend (she was living with her mother). He found out she was trying to get back with my cousin (who was just released from prison), and took the money she earned, bought a weapon and some ammo, emptied it into her 25 year old body, then played russian roulette with himself until he was dead.
It happens everyday. But all of a sudden, the reality of such tragedy hits home when it affects a big name like Steve McNair. SMH
It ain’t about greener grass…it’s about sin, plain and simple. The payment for it is too much for anyone to be able to pay on their own. It’s just a sad, tragic issue.
Harriets last blog post..Who Am I Trying to Impress?
Stingy..to respond to your post…In all respect, I don’t think it has much to do with color. These people could have been green, blue, pink or orange. Believe it or not..this kind of thing happens more that we think. It doesn’t always make national news though. The fact that he was a high profile person, did make it more “news worthy”. but it is far too common. We live in a world that is ruled by spiritual forces..wheather we believe it or not..it’s true! Why did God allow this to happen for all the world to see…who knows, perhaps it was to send a clarion message to that person that we all know who still has a chance to stop whatever it is thats leading them to sure and certain destruction. No matter what their race..
Stingy…you will be debating with your friend for a while. LOL After reading some of the current articles on the web about this young star struck woman, I truly think Steve McNair was killed because he finally told her that he wasn’t going to leave his wife and kids for her. Yes, he bought her an escalade, yes he took her on vacation, yes he had her shacked up in his rented condo (that still bothers me), yes her family thought she had made it by being the mistress of a married baller but ultimately she wasn’t going to be wife #3. I also think that he recent arrest on July 3rd where the cops let him go home in a taxi probably pissed her off. Then on saturday he told her ‘hey I am not leaving wifey.’ It sent her over the edge, she got the gun she had just bought and killed in a lovers’ rage and then shot herself. This is so sad that this will be part of his legacy.
In society I do believe that we as humans tend to think that we are Invincible but we have to realize that In life No ONE is invincible. We are all going and will be Judged. We believe that our lives will last forever and we believe that we can breathe each moment with out God at times, but God is listening and watching at every moment. we are never away from his eyes or ears…he sees and hears ALL! This is the fact that we believe we can pimp God, but not nearly as much as we pimp ourselves into believing that we will be “OK” with a lil sin here and there! Not the case…the truth is, is that NO one can escape anything in this life… no matter that wealth or the fame or power…we will all be found guilty on some account. We must learn to ask God for forgiveness and to turn away from our wicked ways that could lead to our destruction.\
-Dormeka
You all are jumping to conclusions, like is being done with the death of King MJ. How do you all that Steve isnt separated from his wife? If that info does come out will you all change your berating of him ?
lilkunta,
It seems as if you’re guilty of the very thing you’re accusing the commentators of. Once again, the article was not meant to leave Mr. McNair as the sole ocus. If we look at his situation, our lives could possibly mirror the same kind of issues if we’re not careful.
As far as his separation from his wife is concerned, that’s neither here nor there…the fact remains that he still betrayed his marriage with adultery.
IMO, berating is not taking place here. More than anything, honest questions and self-reflection.
Harriets last blog post..Get in Line!
A “PimP” this man was not his last mistake. He was just that a man and men and women alike make mistakes/sin. I was raised to believe no sin is greater than the other and that only God can judge us. I believe that everything happens for a reason. I’m sure someone somewhere will think about this situation and do the right thing, because of Steve’s death. (Even in this tragic death Steve will help others.) I look for the good in all people and I will remember him for the good things he did while living.
I know I said sins are equal, but your issues (the money) doesn’t compare. You were a child and we’ve all done things as children and even during college. This is on a different scale. There’s a wfie and children involved. You could have come up with something better than that to comfort and encourage the readers.
I believe that Steve was given a warning by God when for the third time, he was stopped/pulled over by police and was allowed to take a taxi home. Had he gone home, asked his wife and kids for forgiveness and cut his girlfriend off totally, cut his losses, remove himself out of the sinful situation, he would probably be alive today.
I agree that God does not make mistakes and the lesson in this will be learned by someone who needed it.
It is just sad that his kids will have to be raised by a single mother or other male figures and they will remember the last time they saw their dad, what he meant to them and others and How he died.
my two cents.
Andrea,
I agree with you on a few of your points, but some of your other points beg to be discussed. First and foremost, you’re correct. This man was not his last mistake (awesome perspective, by the way!), everything does happen for a reason, and there are countless others that should learn from this tragedy.
HOWEVER, if you read the entire article, you will see that not only did I discuss childhoood sins, but also things I committed when I was older. I think many can relate to irresponsible sex.
Here’s the deal, though. Once we’re old enough to KNOW BETTER (whether a child stealing quarters or a 21 year old having irresponsible sex), we are held accountable for that knowledge. In that sense, stealing quarters IS just as bad as adultery. As stated in a prior comment, sin is not relegated to a spectrum or levels. A murderer is just as guilty to God as a child who knowingly steals a pack of gum. Yet His grace still covers us all until we either accept His atonement or it’s too late. That’s the illustration I was making.
I would just caution anyone about putting sin on levels and saying one is greater or worse than the other. That’s not how the Lord views it, so you’ll have to excuse me for stating that the latter part of your comment was a vacillation to a great extent. The only difference between what I discussed about my life and what Mr. McNair did was the amount of people it had a detrimental effect on.
Either way, the main Person this tragedy (and my past transgressions) has grieved more than anyone else is the Lord.
Harriets last blog post..Get in Line!
Princess,
I couldn’t agree with you more!
Harriets last blog post..Get in Line!
Hi,
My prayers are especially for Mrs. McNair! What a responsibility she has in front of her. She has to hold it all together for her sons, her family and outsiders while her world has been turned upside DOWN. She has a stand and look at a man that DISRESPECTED her! He allowed pictures to be taken of him, smiling, with another woman. On a vacation that he should have been taking his wife on! She bore him FOUR SONS, what man would not cherish a woman for that alone. He had the nerve to not only purchase his slut a vehicle, but put his name on it! He was around TOWN with the girl, as though it was ALRIGHT to be seen with her in public. Her neighbors report that he was at her house all the time. What about his SONS. The time that he gave this girl should have gone to his children!
This man was indeed, TWO FACED, like in the Batman movies. Now Mrs. McNair is left to complete the raising of their sons and live with the whispers behind her back. She will GET IT ALL and she deserves every dime that he HAD! I have NO RESPECT for this man! He portrayed a “sweet man” but was a MONSTER behind closed doors.
Her family should have been telling her it was wrong! But she like them, saw the dollar signs. Getting a divorce is not having a divorce! She was young and stupid! A tragedy for the sons and his wife!
Machelle,
Mmmmkay…woosah! LOL
Seriously, though, you said, “My prayers are especially for Mrs. McNair! What a responsibility she has in front of her. She has to hold it all together for her sons, her family and outsiders while her world has been turned upside DOWN.”
I would even state that my prayers go out to the family of this young (and dumb) waitress that got in too deep with the life she thought she always wanted.
Although your comment seemed a tad bit angry, I couldn’t help but agree with the gist of your statement. His wife and 4 sons (I’m not so sure all 4 of them were from her, but whatever) are the ones who are suffering the most in this situation. It’s a doggone shame.
Harriets last blog post..Get in Line!
Okay so I have read the article and a lot of the responses and I have mixed emotions about what has been said. After watching the memorial service of MJ I did some self reflecting. Judgment literally killed this man and destroyed his life. Now we want to mourn him and speak on great he was. In his life we dogged him in one breath and sang his songs in another. What does this have to do with this article? Well in that self reflection God showed me how much we are quick to judge people that we don’t know and their lifestyles that we hear about. Though I agree that what he did was wrong (adultery), that’s it. The type of relationship he had with his wife, kids, and “girlfriend” are none of our business. We pray for his family and friends and keep it moving.
What we take out of this is solely God’s infinite grace!! It is because of his grace that we are still here to blog. Not because any of us have stopped sinning or are so pleasing in God’s sight. I don’t feel it was the authors intention to vilify his memory but maybe her choice of words and title could have been better chosen. Remembering that we have to make everything clear giving the enemy no room to misconstrue our thoughts. Farrah Fawcett died of cancer after having a long term relationship which did not result in marriage with her sons father. Was that punishment from God? Who knows and who cares? What we need to focus on is our own sins end of story. How tight is your relationship with Christ, really?
Ultimately I feel this was the underlined point of the article but it was truly understated! If God wrote this, is this what it would of said? Grace and Love. To call the young lady dumb, starstruck whatever was all wrong. We are all just as guilty as her. We’ve been young and dumb or old and dumb. Mesmerized by some star. Whatever the case. It could of been some drug dealer or boy next door but regardless we’ve been there. Pray that the girls coming up behind us won’t make those same timeless mistakes. Pray that whatever may have driven this girl to possibly killing herself and this man or just wanting to be with someone who was married that other women can see and stop themselves now from going down the same path. And she clearly isn’t white and he was living with his friend(male). lol (Again doesn’t matter) This is the enemies way of getting us focused on the things that don’t matter to God.
Let’s pray not judge I’m just saying. Love y’all
Harriet, I get what you are saying and I totally agree. It’s the most powerful message in all of Christianity next to John 3:16. However, there was one thing that gave me pause in reading this. The word DESERVED. I think in the context of this article or in any context in close proximity its a dangerous word. In my opinion you run the risk of implying God has a merit system and we know that’s not the case. The truth of the matter is, you can be prayed up six ways from Sunday and still encounter hard times, strife, health problems or loose your life “too soon”. God blesses the obedient as well as those who would curse His name. There are people who get HIV in the confines of marriage and people who are struck down in the street going to spend their hard earned money. You just never know. Being under the Lord’s divine protection does not keep you covered from EVERYTHING because if He wants to use you he will use you.
As for his untimely death, for all we know he could have been killed because he decided to do the right thing and asked for forgiveness from the Lord HOURS before he even saw her. We will never know, but if we knew for sure, would this discussion be the same? Discussing the “what ifs” and “maybes” is fine, but let’s be careful not to be judgmental.
Stone anyone?
I know I am going to get flack for my comment. We all know cheating is wrong. Steve was killed due to bad choices. The woman he cheated with was very young. She was not even old enough to drink but it was reported that she received a DUI hours after (being old enough to purchase the gun that killed (them). Sad. You can’t legally drink in the U S Of A, before the age of 21, but you can get married at 18 and purchase a hand gun because that’s our right. It’s been reported that Steve had a condo in his name for her to live in, bought her a Escelade and I thought I read she was in college. This woman’s niece(they were raised as sisters) says that Steve was going to divorce his wife. Only 50+ year old men leave their wife for a newer model, not a 37 year old man. I don’t buy that he was going to leave his wife, but I think she knew about his cheating. Give a 20 yr. old a drink and a gun and they think you are breaking up with them to go back to your wife and kids and this will always be the end result. To all the men out there, black, green old yellow, leave the tender ronies alone. They will only be “eye candy” and you have nothing in common.
Off Topic: Billy Joel and his wife of 5 years (who is only a few years older than his daughter Alexa(Alexis) not sure of his daughters name) but they are divocing. Like that was a surprise. I do think that some ppl stay married to “prove them wrong”. But I guess 5 years married in celeb land is a long time.
@ Kirsten
You said, “What we take out of this is solely God’s infinite grace!! It is because of his grace that we are still here to blog. Not because any of us have stopped sinning or are so pleasing in God’s sight.”
Exactly my point. I think your commentary bears a lot of weight. Although you may disagree with the title or the choice of words I used, please don’t doubt the fact that the words I write are a result of the unique voice God has given me. Do trust that I’m not going to abuse it just for “ratings.”
@ Curvy,
Here’s the thing with the word “deserved:” A much used (and abused) scripture in the Bible states that the wages of sin is death. Period. So once again, from a couple of quarters to adultery, the payment is the same in the eyes of God. And once again, the point Kirsten made about grace is the remedy to it. It’s a disease, and the only permanent cure is a relationship with Jesus. Yes, you’re right…folks can be prayed up and still come across hard times (Job is a great example). But it is also a balanced truth that some folks come upon tragedy set themselves up for it.
I’m not the type of Christian that talks about God’s goodness without ever discussing His accountability. Yes, He is good. Yes He is faithful. Yes, He is loving, kind, humble, awesome, magnificent, excellent, etc. etc. to the nth degree!
But what many fail to realize is that He is also balanced, He’s not the punk, weak looking guy on the Sistine Chapel. The same Jesus that fed multitudes and was the CHIEF Captain-Save-A-Ho when those folks wanted to stone that lady is the SAME MAN who saw the people He gave responsibility to (the Pharisees) pimping the system in the temple that was created for worship. This same Jesus was moved with the same compassion that healed, fed and did miracles. Only that compassion was used to fashion a whip and beat those jokers out of His Daddy’s house.
Am I saying this is the case with Mr. McNair? Well, since I’m not God, it’s hard to say. I’m just making an observation that many are afraid to address because they think God is some kind of punk or Sugar Daddy that can be run over, but then run to all the time when we get in trouble.
Come on…we gotta be real about these issues and address them wholly. Kirsten, by all means, write an article about McNair’s philanthroopy and how he came from rags to riches. Let’s honor and celebrate his life in a memorial ceremony. But in doing so, we also cannot look beyond or turn a blind eye to what was literally a fatal attraction to him. Not to this young (and dumb…I’ll say it again) lady, but to whatever it was (sin) that caused him to step out on his wife and family time and time again.
I love y’all, and I appreciate your comments. I really do. I’ve read them as a mirror, and checked myself and my motives behind this article. I’d love to be able to say that I’m backing up off my assertion, but I cannot.
Harriets last blog post..Get in Line!
I hear you Harriet I really do and maybe in some ways we are saying the same thing and are not able to tell. But as I stated before I get your point and have no problem with the point. And I am not afraid to address all the issues. What I am saying is that you have to be careful in doing that, when all your information is hearsay or opinion. The only facts in this article are he was a great athlete, was married with kids, was killed next to a girl and the stuff about you. Other than that nothing. We don’t know the details of his relationship with his wife or with this girl.Can we make assumptions, of course but should we no. Until its no longer called speculation its called gossip. Which is a sin in itself. Which brings me back to none of us have stopped sinning. There are no levels in sin. If we truly believed that we wouldn’t even be having this conversation because we’d recognize none of us are in position to talk about sins! Calling this girl young and dumb is judgment no matter how you justify it. Sin again. See we do this all the time but don’t weigh those against the quarters, murder and adultery. No where in the bible do I see Jesus or God making reference to anyone calling them dumb unless they were deaf and dumb. It’s wrong it promotes negativity and it tears us down. Someone reading this article could be that girl and is on the fence of her next decision. Would she see this article and attached comments as uplifting and encouraging to start a new walk with Jesus or would she feel like the woman laying in front of her accusers to be stoned. “He who is WITHOUT” sin cast the first stone until then put your rocks away!!!
I never really rode out with the whole WWJD til recently. I don’t say it but I do think it. I feel that these real issues need to be addressed but it’s just how we say it. When God gives us a voice and ears to listen we must be mindful of ALL the ears that maybe listening. There is the saved ear, unsaved ear, backslidden ear, mature ear, immature ear, on the border ear I think you get my point. The bible speaks to all ears because it is from God unfiltered in its original version anyway. So when God gives us something it should reach all those ears as well as long as it stays unfiltered. I’m not just talking about the articles but even the responses(inclusive of everyone even me). Some things we are agreeing with are natural responses not spiritual. Just be careful
Kirsten,
I get your point. I believe we are free to be who we were created to be. There is an inherent risk of misunderstanding within personalities and individuality. “Young and dumb” to me is a cliche…the two tend to go hand in hand (at least in my meager experience). So it’s not a judgment call as far as the sentiment behind it is concerned; just an observation that the age of 20 = 30 with NO WISDOM (for most). LOL
I certainly do not agree with gossip as a way of life. You left out that facts remain that this young lady was NOT his wife, that he and this young lady DID have more than a platonic relationship (unless all those pics were photoshopped…you never know with media circles these days), and that both McKnair and Kazemi are dead.
Yes, as Christians we are to be all things to all people (and ears…great point). HOWEVER–just to make an addendum to that point–we are NOT to close our eyes and ears to circumstances just because others are afraid to talk about them. Jesus in one breath commended Peter for his revelation then rebuked him for thinking in a fleshly manner. Paul had much respect for Peter, but called that joker out on his bigoted attitude. Paul also wrote an open letter to the powerfully gifted Corinthian church about how much God was blessing them. Then he told them to put someone out of the church for sleeping with his daddy’s wife and bragging about it.
And we are–dare I say it–called to judge CIRCUMSTANCES, not PEOPLE. God doesn’t want us to turn our minds off and overlook situations like this. They need to be discussed on a real level, and sugarcoating this situation doesn’t lead to the kind of dialog that would elicit change.
In all my commentary (with the exception of calling Ms. Kazemi young and dumb), I never judged Mr. McNair or Ms. Kazemi. I stated a biblically based opinion about the circumstances behind their demise. That’s not a justification, it’s a discussion.
Additionally, the article was not written to cast stones, but to provide mirrors for us to look at our own lives in light of this situation and give God glory for the fact that we are still alive, given the fact that the payment for ANY kind of transgression is death. Because truth be told, I live in a glass house, and I have no room, no right and no intention on throwing stones.
Wow, Kirsten…you really gave me a lot to think about. I believe your commentary has opened the door for much more discussion regarding life and God in general. Thanks for letting the Lord use you!
Harriets last blog post..Get in Line!
Let me just say that I am enjoying this dialogue. Okay so the one fact I did leave out was, that he had a more than platonic relationship with this girl and that was due to a lack of words on my part. I just didn’t want to call her girlfriend. A lot of other stuff I was saying was directed more to some of responses than to the article itself. I felt a lot of judging going on and not enough self reflection which I did see as the point of your article. I feel as the author and even myself as a reader have to also address those a little more sternly as well. Some stuff that was said was dead wrong and straight judgment. Like things Machelle and Anna were saying. How do we know his wife isn’t behind this? I watch Snapped, I’m just saying lol. Seriously we don’t. There are too many holes in this story for us to have convicted on ALL counts. I stress ALL because there are some we can.
The thing is from this article instead hashing out the rumor mill we should be discussing things like: Why men cheat?, Or why the enemy is hellbent on destroying marriages?, Or women and low self esteem (an obvious issue here). We could even focus more on the consequences of sin which is death (which Christ did for us already. He was crucified one time once and for All people and all sins. We however, crucify Him daily. Take back to the cross and its Passion of the Christ all over again. I barely got through it the first time. Poor God! Anyway,my point is “judge not lest ye be judged.” And yes let’s discuss some of the circumstances that led up to the events. As tragic as the event was there are some deeper issues going on that need to be addressed. This is to all who have read and commented not just the author.
But to the author for the record I just turned 30 lol. I’m more concerned about the teens and the single over 40 crowd than anything. But that’s just me lol. Love yall much!!!
Kirsten,
Girl, high 5! We’re definitely in the same great Book…probably two sides of the same coin. I TOTALLY agree with you!
For the record, I just met 30 two years ago, so I feel where you’re coming from. LOL
Once again, thanks for the dialog. I enjoyed it as well, and look forward to seeing your commentary on the articles to other contributors (Tara and E. Payne immediately come to mind) on this site!
Thanks again for being so thought provoking!
Harriets last blog post..Get in Line!
Harriet,
I am not guilty of what you all are guilty of. Many comments here are berating him for cheating. If the article wasnt to have Steve as the sole focus, you surely fooled me with comments like this :
_ Mr. McNair was definitely engaged in what I like to call “Big Pimpin”…by the allegation that he died in the condo of his alleged girlfriend? His GIRLFRIEND, not his wife! _
My stance is if they are separated, will you all retract your talons?
A separation IS here or there. It does matter.
If separated both Steve & Mechelle feel the marriage at that point is over & they may start to move on.
So how did he betray his marriage ?
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Author: Harriet
Comment:lilkunta, It seems as if you’re guilty of the very thing you’re accusing the commentators of. Once again, the article was not meant to leave Mr. McNair as the sole ocus. If we look at his situation, our lives could possibly mirror the same kind of issues if we’re not careful. As far as his separation from his wife is concerned, that’s neither here nor there…the fact remains that he still betrayed his marriage with adultery. IMO, berating is not taking place here. More than anything, honest questions and self-reflection.
lilkunta:
My contention is still that a separation is neither here nor there. Until a DIVORCE is finalized, it DOES matter whether a man (or woman) decides to have a sexual relationship with another person.
I’m glad you quoted my article, because you can definitely see that the word “alleged” is in plain view for all to see; it hasn’t been proven, but that’s the speculation of the professionals investigating the case, based upon the preponderance of evidence.
That said, it doesn’t go well in Mr. McNair’s favor that there are pictures of him and Ms. Kazemi parasailing and being all romantic, nor does it bode well in his favor that he purchased a vehicle worth upwards of $40-50,000 for her.
You said, “If separated,both Steve & Mechelle feel the marriage at that point is over & they may start to move on.” I just don’t buy into the fallacy that a marriage is over upon separation. It ain’t over until it’s OVER, i.e. divorce papers have been signed. One of the many reasons legal separations are filed is to allow couples time apart, away from the conflict of the marriage to decide if divorce is what they truly want.
So please don’t believe the hype that once separation papers are filed, the marriage is over.
Again, I state the fact remains that Mr. McNair was STILL married, thus held accountable to the boundaries of marriage until a divorce is final. The fact also remains that there was no evidence of a filing for either separation or divorce in the state where he and his wife got married.
And “talons,” lilkunta? Come on…when did mature adults revert to calling (or implying) names when engaged in disagreement? But if you consider me to be an eagle, then thank you ever so kindly for the compliment!
Harriets last blog post..Get in Line!
Contend all you want. Thank heavens it is the law of the land and not law of Harriet. When you separate you may move on. In court, a relationship after the 2 parties separate doesnt count against. So to you it may matter, but to I and many others it doesnt. The only thing you cannot do until the divorce is final is marry.
You used alleged to protect yourself from a libel/slander lawsuit but we all know what you mean. The title of this is ‘big pimpin’ & if the mcNair had made their separation public you wouldnt be able to be here bashing him.
I think it DOES go well in steve’s favour. His neighbors saw Sahel regularly so he wasnt hiding her. The car was in both their names. To me this is the mark of a long term relationship, unless he had just co bought/leased the car with Sahel.This is why I think she wasnt a misress or side deal but his girlfriend.
It isnt a fallacy, it is a fact. You dont have to buy it bc you arent Steve nor Mechelle nor the thousands of others who do move on once the 2 have decided to separate. It is over once the 2 involved agree to that, divorce isnt immediate but 2 parties speaking 2 1 another is.
It isnt hype. It is statistics. For some they separate and do get back together, for some they separate and divorce.
Yes he was married but if he was separated he is free 2 move on. Like I said above, divorce takes time. If Mechelle & he agreed & were apart he had every right to move on. We dont have evidence, if this was Cali tmz would have had the papers already. I think bc it was over the federal holiday as well as in the midst of the death /memorial of MJ, steve’s death isnt getting national attention.
Yes talons. Many on here are bashing him. YOU titled this thread big pimpin after all. This isnt name calling, it is a euphemism. Surely you know what that is.
@ lilkunta
Wow. Well, you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. I stated once before in another comment (not directed towards you) that I make my assertions based on the truth as it is outlined in what I hold to be its most pure standard: not the constitution or legalities, but the Word of God.
I cannot debate you into a position of faith in that Bible, so it’s best for us to just agree to disagree on this one. My opinion was based on the fact that marriage is supposed to be until death do us part, not until we just decide we want to get us an extra concubine or two on the side. *shrug*
Either way, your banter is still making my original point within our dialog better than I ever could. I still appreciate each “euphemism” or whatever you want to call it provided. LOL. Be blessed!
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Oh, and one more thing @ lilkunta:
I thank God that I’m not God. Good gracious! If that statement alone is not loaded with gratitude, I don’t know what is. I thank Him each and every day that I don’t have the burden of setting up boundaries of safety, protection, provision, salvation, purpose, etc. and watching daily as the people I love make a willful choice to ignore those boundaries.
It’s not the law of Harriet, thank God! I’m glad I’m not well versed in laws surrounding legal separation and divorce. I’m glad I’m not Mechelle McNair or Sahel Kazemi’s mother. More than anything, I’m grateful that I’m not subscribing to become a victim of an abnormal normality like adultery, legal separation (a EUPHEMISM for adultery) or divorce.
To see American society and families torn apart by this foolishness is heartbreaking. Every case is different, but this particular case is open and shut (based on the latest news about it being a murder-suicide).
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
WOW lilkunta! Wow!! So I just want to say that though I may disagree with some of Harriets choice of wording which I said earlier I feel this may be getting out of hand and off track. The two of you are obviously coming from different foundations. Harriet is speaking from the spiritual aspect. Where God not Harriet speaks to sex outside of the confines of your marriage as divorce. There was no separation clause at the time. Separation is what people use to take time to reevaluate their relationship before they finalize them one way or the other. For some its just a formality and others its hope. It used to be the law in some states. Now from the worldly aspect the type of relationship was cool. The way he did it may have even been understood by his wife. Problem is this is an article with a Christian point of view. We just have to clear up which point of view we are coming from. Each one would be right coming from opposite points of view. If that makes sense.
@ Kirsten,
Girl, there you go again being a peacemaker! :o) “You’re blessed when you can show people how to cooperate instead of compete or fight. That’s when you discover who you really are, and your place in God’s family.” (Matthew 5:9…the Message version)
That makes total sense, and I think on my part, I have to chill with the presumption that everyone reading a biblically based article will answer from a biblical worldview. LOL
@ lilkunta,
I should have made the fact that I was writing and commenting based on my biblical beliefs more clear. That was more than likely the foundation of our disagreement. I’m cool either way, but I apologize for misunderstanding your point of view. We were on some apples and oranges type of stuff. LOL
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
@harriet :
“based on the truth as it is outlined”
Are you a TN officer? So how do you know the truth? I think you’re going from the news reports, as I am, as we all are.
And if youre going from the word of god, doesnt he say “judge not lest ye be judged”? So isnt it wrong of you to be judging this man & blasting this man?
You’ve done it and continue to do it : _My opinion was based on the fact that marriage is supposed to be until death do us part, not until we just decide we want to get us an extra concubine or two on the side._ HOW DO YOU KNOW HE SEPARATED FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF ‘getting an extra concubine”?
It isnt “whatever I want to call” it, it is that. Look up the word.
LOL…it’s clear I pushed a button for you, lilkunta. Once again, let’s just agree to disagree. I’m not about to engage in a debate with you about vocabulary and vernacular.
Please be blessed! Seriously. :o)
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
Machelle,
Steve & MeChelle have 2 sons together so no she didnt “bore him 4 sons”. I do understand you siding with Mechelle in this time; however if he was
This is a tragedy FOR ALL INVOLVED : Steve, Mechelle, the 4 sons, & Sahel’s family as well, they lost their daughter/sister too.
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Machelle said:
Legal separation isnt a euphemism for adultery. It is in many states a mandatory step before a divorce may proceed.
Put down your bible and pick up a law book .
I am saddened when ALL FAMILIES WORLDWIDE are torn apart by travesties. I wish Sahel would have spoken to someone instead of acting as she did. I guess there is no waiting period for a gun purchase in TN as she bought that gun just hours after her DUI arrest.
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# 8 July 2009 at 6:25 pm Harriet said:
Oh, and one more thing @ lilkunta:…
Yea, i agree way too much cheating everywhere…sooner or later, play with fire and u get burned…
Does anyone know who that second young lady was that Steve was having an affair with besides Kazemi? The one Kazemi had spied/stalked/followed her home etc? was reading news article on http://thefullenchilada.com/newstuff/fatal-affair-the-steve-mcnair-story.htm and anyone know the real details if all four of his children are with michelle or not?
Well the police report is in and most of you were wrong. McNair did nothing for and to Sahel except bone her. The girl was strapped for cash and the bills were mounting. McNair didn’t buy her a car, he got it in his name and she was making the payments on that car and another one. Her roommate was also moving out and her rent was about double. She had no condo paid for by McNair; she had car paid for by McNair. She killed him because financially he wasn’t the sugar daddy she thought he would be. McNair’s actions didn’t cause his death. The actions of crazed, money grubbing woman is why he is dead. Stop blaming him- stop blaming the wife.
But I can see someone saying he was still at fault because he chose to step out of his marriage which is pretty unfortunate because so many American’s do. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Lauren, thanks for pointing out that his infidelity didn’t have much to do with his murder. Yes, there’s a connection, but from the looks of it, it seems like this woman was young, deranged, immature, and possibly mentally ill……when you add all of that up, it’s a recipe for disaster.
What’s my point? He could have ended up dead if she was just his babysitter, housekeeper, or personal assistant.
Yes, the ‘love’ and/or attachment she had with him probably added fuel to her emotions, but her irrational behavior was there all along, especially when you consider that they only dated for a few months.
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lauren, he was cheating on kazemi with another girl, and yea it is his fault partly, he’d be alive if he wasn’t cheating on his wife.
“McNair’s actions didn’t cause his death.” -Wow
This is a direct case of cause and effect and if that’s not evident I don’t know what is. Now I liked the guy like a lot of you and was a fan since he graduated from college but let’s keep it real. If he was at home with his wife and kids would he be dead? And this woman was not someone he met at the supermarket that followed him home and stalked him. He had a relationship with this young woman, took her on vacation, co-owned a car with her (even though she paid money on the note his name was still on it) and saw her enough that they neighbors thought he lived there.
If he wasn’t a football star would this conversation be the same?
In closing it’s sad, and I often think of those boys growing up with no father and what’s even more tragic is they will know why.
This is such an interesting discussion….but, I’m respectfully asking, what’s the ’cause’here? Because he cheated (we still don’t know if he was separated from his wife) or because he chose to date someone with a mental illness/unstable personality?
Danielles last blog post..Changing the Pool’s Complexion
I agree with Lamar wholeheartedly. Great questions, Danielle! To me, the choices you offered are only symptomatic of the root problem he had with stepping out on his wife.
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
I also Agree with Lamar.
If it was a random guy who was seen about town with a woman who wasnt his wife, vacationed with said woman who wasnt his wife, constantly at the home of said woman, and got a car in his name for said woman who was not his wife this would be a no-brainer. The man was cheating!
I totally get you Harriet. We all do things that are wrong and we need to reflect on and turn aways from those things because you never know what consequences will occur. This unfortunate murder-suicide stemmed from the sin of adultery. The Bible says you reap what you sow, the world says karma is a *****! And as mentioned before…this situation would not have occured if he had been home with his family.
And just for clarification. The Bible mentions judging a lot. But it never said to not call right right and wrong wrong. It says not to judge, meaning condemn someone to their final destination or beyond any help or redemption because of their actions. God sits in the judgement seat, he decides when you’re at the end of your rope. That doesnt mean that a Christian cannot say that adultery is wrong. As a matter of fact we have a duty to stand up for righteousness. The requirement for this stand is that we make sure that the log is out of our own eye before we point out the speck in someone else’s.(MAtthew 7) I.E. dont be hypocritical and castigate someone for adultery when you are also guilty of it.
I am a big fan of football and I did enjoy McNair. But as with anyone we should learn from their mistakes lest we fall.
My prayers and condolances go out to the family. It must be extremely painful to lose a spouse but to have to deal with the betrayal and public knowledge of that betrayal must provoke very conflicting feelings of sorrow, anger and guilt.
Lets all let this make us better people.
This discussion is beginning to disintegrate into something so far from Harriet’s original point. I can not believe we are essentially lambasting this man because he had an affair. Even though stepping outside the sanctity of marriage is WRONG no matter which way you look at it, worldly or spiritually, we all make mistakes and bad choices. Our only saving grace is that it’s not shown for the world to see and blog/comment on. Please remember that this is someone’s life we are talking about. I think we get way too comfortable with the anonymity of the internet and the fish bowl of celebrities lives that we don’t think twice about what we say or how we say it. What if his children or his family read some of these comments. How do you think they would feel? I think we need to show a little more compassion and understanding for all parties involved.
We don’t know what their relationship looked like so to say he should have been at home with his wife and kids is unfair. Say he should have been alone. Say he should have been with a friend. Say he shouldn’t have been with her. Say he should have been with his pastor. Say ANYTHING that doesn’t oversimplify someone else’s relationship that you know NOTHING about. Yes he cheated, yes the infidelity CONTRIBUTED to his ultimate demise but nothing is ever that black and white. If they had an open relationship, would we feel differently?
And to say “you reap what you sow” in this case is inaccurate. If you sow adultery, you reap adultery, not loosing your life. Times like this I’m so glad nobody on this Earth is God. With my track record, I wouldn’t stand a chance.
Beautiful this was and is a great article, you spoke the truth without compromising words and you spoke from your heart. Your words were Holy Ghost inspired and I congratulate you for doing that. Alot of people are upset you spoke truth, but they will get over it. Yes he messing around with this 20 year old did cause his death. He created a soul tie with this young girl and she couldn’t handle it.
@LilKunta
Get your head out of the clouds, pimping is the best word for it, whether seperated or not. Marriage wasn’t created for you to try out to see if you want this wife/husband or not, it is a convenant ordained by God. So yes it’s still pimping to be seperated and be with another woman. Yes there are some issues where seperation and divorce are in need. Now if a woman is getting her head bashed to the white meat, then yea divorce, run, skip, or jump up out of the marriage. Or if there is verbal and mental abuse get out. With that said if you get out of a marriage and you are seperated and you already having sex with someone else, you pimping.
Now you told my wife to put her bible down and pick up a law book, well that AINT going to happen the law was founded off the bible so even you with your law book in your hand have a bible. But basically you were asking her to become street witcha, thats me not her. So here we go me and you both know he was a pimp and had he not got shot to death and it came out he was just cheating and had two girls on the side you would congratulate him as being a pimp. You even know it was wrong in your heart what he did, be because you proably his number one fan, you’ ll let it slide just to uphold his rep on the feild. Then you say “judge not” man please mcnair showed the world the verdict “Guilty” of being a pimp and having a tragic end. Man we need black men to rep right and the way we do that is have character on and off the field. Now 4 boys, no daddy, cause they daddy wanted to be a pimp. It is what it is. So stop idolizing the man and be honest with yourself and see that his ACTIONS cause his death. Think about it if I smack you, you going to smack me back. My actions cause that. So he slept with her, got her emotions in it, she was unstable in her emotions, bang PIMP dead. So my wife spoke truth as she always do, stop hating cause she said what you ain’t man enough to public say.Freedom of speech, don’t judge me, I still have love for ya.
@Lamar
Thanks for posting my wife article
Wow again!! First to LakeshaF I just want to clear up something you said about Matthew 7:3. It makes references to two different things KJV uses mote in your eye when I have a beam in mine. Showing that though it is all in the same family (sin) they are different types. Which is why NONE of us are in a position to judge! Like I said earlier none of us have stopped sinning. Both Lamar and Curvy have made good points but I got to go got a date can’t be late. Respond more later. Keep it all love luv yall
Everytime we have an opinion on something is it really judging. I think that’s kind of thrown around loosely every time someone doesn’t agree with you. Saw a lot of that in the post we had saying we didn’t believe in open marriage- then everyone came out of the woodworks saying we shouldn’t judge them. Well guess what, I don’t believe in it and I think it’s wrong.
Back to the point…From what we do know they say the man was married and wasn’t getting a divorce. I don’t believe a married man should be in that situation. That’s my belief.
Also how everyone is so quick to condemn the girl don’t forget she was just that A GIRL. She just turned 20 so when they met she was 19. Now any 36 y/o man I know can turn a 19/20 y/o’s head out by just taking her to Forever 21 for a T Shirt or Cheesecake Factory. Imagine if the guy they were dating was a multi-millionaire celebrity who she thought would be her husband some day that co-signed a slick ride and took you on trips in just a few short months? Now I’m not saying she was justified in anyway but basically she was immature in her thinking as most 19/20 year olds are plus there was something else going on there perhaps from a mental standpoint. If we’re going to look at it lets look at it but don’t absolve him from the situation or any wrongdoing because he laced up his cleats on Sunday afternoon.
As stated before would the conversation be the same if he was a regular dude?
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@ Patrick,
Yet another reason why I love you, baby! I really appreciate you encouraging me to be who God created me to be in the gifts He gave me.
I’m glad this wasn’t a discussion in public, though. I don’t want you proving that “smacking” point. I know you ain’t all the way there on that “turn the other cheek” stuff. LOL!
*Smooches!!!* I love you, baby!
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
@ Danielle,
You said, “He could have ended up dead if she was just his babysitter, housekeeper, or personal assistant.”
From a spiritual standpoint, I disagree. Mr. McNair didn’t approach her to hire her as a babysitter, housekeeper or PA. He approached her with an indecent proposal.
If I had been 20 years old, without a foundation in the Bible and in church, broke and struggling, I probably would have taken the bait of his dollar signs and status as well. No lie. And if her emotions were already unstable, that becomes a recipe for disaster as all the world can clearly see.
@ LaKeysha,
Thank you, sis, for differentiating between what the average person sees as “judging” vs. what it actually is. The same Bible I hold dear is clear on us understanding the difference between holy and unholy, clean and unclean, righteous and unrighteous. Jesus said Himself that we would know others not by their status or fortune, but by their fruit. It’s incumbent upon EVERYONE to make observations about their own lives as well as the lives of others based on the fruit thereof. Not based on their outward circumstances, but the conditions of their hearts and our own.
@ Curvy,
You said, “What if his children or his family read some of these comments. How do you think they would feel? I think we need to show a little more compassion and understanding for all parties involved.”
EXCELLENT point! I was just talking to my co-worker about how Mrs. McNair must feel. The woman found out her husband was dead. Then she found out he was cheating on her, and a natural knee jerk reaction would be to WISH he was dead. But then BAM, the reality hits her again that he actually IS dead. Jesus, have mercy! The pain she is having to endure right now is beyond my ability to comprehend.
@ Lamar,
Thank you for pointing that out. It seems like every time someone rocks the boat with an assertion that’s opposite what society thinks, they’re being judgmental. Since we’re on laws, thank God for the First Amendment right to free speech!
****
Bottom line: this is an unfortunate incident, and we ALL could stand to learn something from it.
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
@Harriet,
The truth is we really don’t know….my point in my response was to point out that she has an impairment, so yes, love gone wrong could have set her off, but other things could have as well, in her varied life roles.
We don’t know.
Danielles last blog post..Changing the Pool’s Complexion
@ Danielle,
True, true. We certainly don’t.
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
Lamar, until all of this happened I had no idea who Steve McNair was. I couldn’t tell you what team he played for, what school he went to, and I’m not even sure I know what position he played (quarterback maybe?). So to answer your question, yes, if he was a regular dude, my commentary would still be the same; can’t speak for anyone else. It is not my intention nor desire to in any way absolve him of wrongdoing, celebrity or not. He most certainly got himself into a horrible position and paid for it dearly. But I feel sorry for him. Maybe more sorry for him than anyone else in this situation for the exact same reason Harriet wrote this post in the first place. He never got a chance to fix it. He never got a chance to see the error of his ways. He never got a chance to either work on his marriage or get out of it. It was simply too late. I just think that point has gotten lost in all of this. I’ve yet to read one answer to Harriet’s original question about how we’ve knowingly done wrong, made it out to see another day and then taken another course. Instead we play the blame game. Trying to figure out who’s more at fault for his death. I’m just saying, Christians, Non-Christians doesn’t matter; we should ALL show more compassionate for everyone involved.
*raising my hand* @ curvy
I’ve made mention of my original question many times in my commentary as well as in the article.
But you’re right. The tragedy is that he never got the chance to fix it while we are still enjoying oxygen and being given another dosage of grace and mercy to get it right.
For example, the disagreement between lilkunta and I was unnecessary, given the fact that we were coming from two totally different frames of reference. I apologized for that fact, but it seems the damage was already done.
Bottom line (again) is that this is an unfortunate incident, and we ALL could stand to learn something from it.
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
Lol, of course you did it was your post! I guess I should have given special exemption for you :oP
Yes, you should have! And the wages for you not making mention of that GLARING fact is another bin of cookies. Pay up! LOL
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
“I’m hoping that people can look beyond the circumstances surrounding his death. What people fail to realize is that when you make a transition away from the game — emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually — you go through something. You change, and you’re constantly searching for something,”
Eddie George, McNair’s ex teammate said this today on cnn.com. Any thoughts?
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
Did he elaborate on that ’something’? What could they be searching for? I certainly imagine that they have it all?
Danielles last blog post..Personable Panhandlers?
I’m sure Mr. George did elaborate, but the news article didn’t say more than that. You can read it in its entirety at http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/09/mcnair.eddiegeorge/index.html.
Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable
@ patrick : Your wife titled this post a pop culture term then tried to get religious. That sh*t aint working on me.
You & her keep drinking that koolaid. Prolly flavour “red”.
Very well said curveydva .
@lil kunta:
We prefer Ice Tea….
@curvyiva- point taken. I actually wasn’t going to comment on this one but it bothers me when we don’t relate the choices we make to consequences that follow and I’ve been seeing some of that all around the web since news of this broke. People think the two aren’t related and this happens not with just this situation but with choices we make everyday.
Secondly this is a conversation I’ve frequently had with men and women about cheating or opening up your marriage to other folks for years. As men we think we are in control of every situation but you can’t be in control because you never know what that third person will do or is capable of especially when feelings get involved. I see men
And I can believe that you didn’t know McNair but a lot of people did and I won’t believe that in this situation this many women in particular would have seemed to have chosen sides in the matter. I’ve heard much more compassion for Steve and anger at his girlfriend than I’ve heard concern about what his wife and sons are dealing with. That’s what really bothers me. I’ve been thinking about those boys everyday. It’s crazy enough out here for young black men, they definitely don’t need to bare this cross for the rest of their lives.
@Harriet
Eddie George is full of B.S.
@ MJ
My sentiments exactly. LOL!!!
Harriets last blog post..Y’all Better Be Glad I’m Saved!
I feel bad for his wife, but I highly doubt this was his first affair and that she was not aware of his girls on the side.
Many top athletes, actors, musicians etc who once they make it big, get offered free pussy (or dick) and most spouses just ignore it.
Surely Sahel was unstable but I guess easy impressable. Why would she actually believe this married man would leave his wife for her? Guess he told her that line to keep her by his side.
It’s unfortunate how this whole ting played out, hopefully those who like to cheat now think twice before doing so.
Ok, I know we’re pretty much done with this topic, but I wanted to share comments from a discussion I had earlier today. Pretty much my friend, 37 yo African American male, was angry that people were not more outraged about the young woman’s actions. Basically he said if the roles had been reversed and a man murdered his mistress for cheating, their would be more outrage, more disgust/ridicule towards the man, saying he would be hung by the media, which we’re not seeing in this case. He even mentioned O.J., saying media coverage is not balanced when it comes to men and women, especially when comparable crimes are covered
Danielles last blog post..Baby, I’m old
@ Danielle,
I think to some extent that’s a cop out on the part of your friend. Am I saying that what Ms. Kazemi did was right? Not at all. But who was the more mature one in this situation? Mr. McNair.
Yeah, she was a little on the insane side, and had she lived, I’m sure she would have suffered quite a bit from many sides. If she had lived after murdering McNair:
- The entire world would have come against her, from his wife to his children to the police to the media. She’s not around to deal with that at all.
- She probably would have had to go into protective custody…Mr. McNair’s boys are NFL players, for God’s sake! They probably would have been ready to kill her themselves!
- No matter how angry his wife was that Ms. Kazemi was the “other woman,” if she had lived, you can believe Mrs. McNair would have been in her grill at every court date to ensure the full measure of the law was taken against her.
In some senses I agree with your friend, but hypothetically if Ms. Kazemi had lived, I believe she would have been held accountable in EVERYONE’S eyes ONLY because McNair was a rich and famous athlete. But in any other case we hear about in the news about XY or Z, I think your friend’s assessment is correct.
Finally, a double standard that doesn’t go well in a man’s favor. LOL (that was really just a joke…I’m not a feminist. wouldn’t want lilkunta to come and get me again ROFL).
Harriets last blog post..The Seed
@Harriet
Thank you for bringing us this article and I’ve enjoyed reading the various viewpoints in this discussion. I will say that in some ways I did agree with lilkunta in the sense that if you are legally separated, technically, if it is understood between both parties, you can go your own way. Just because I think it may be wrong, doesn’t make it a “euphemism for adultery” especially if two consenting adults are okay with agreement. Also, I don’t agree with the disrespectful way that lilkunta came at you, but her point about using religion as a debate point, but titling a post “Big Pimpin’ “, does in my opinion, seem a bit contradictory to me as well. Also, Harriet, I completely loved your point of view until I saw this:
“LOL (that was really just a joke…I’m not a feminist. wouldn’t want lilkunta to come and get me again ROFL).”
If I’m wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing. Again, please correct me if I’m wrong. Based upon the voice of your article, I’d say you were a feminist. Being a feminist doesn’t have to be tantamount to being called a B****. It can, and is, a very positive term. Sorry, I’ll get off of my soapbox now, it’s just that that last line of your reply rubbed me the wrong way. Again, thank you for your article.
Thanks for the comment, Mrs. S.!
There was a lot of depth to what you were saying, and I’m going to try to address each point you made within this comment.
You said, “if you are legally separated, technically, if it is understood between both parties, you can go your own way. Just because I think it may be wrong, doesn’t make it a “euphemism for adultery” especially if two consenting adults are okay with agreement.”
Once again, the point of view I’m coming from is strictly a biblical one. God HATES divorce. There are certain instances in the Bible and in modern day where it is necessary (children in jeopardy, abuse, adultery just to name a few), but overall, the institution of marriage was the FIRST one God created, even before He created the church. So although I’m glad there are laws in place to allow two consenting adults to do what they want to do, I still don’t agree with it from a BIBLICAL worldview.
You also said, “Also, I don’t agree with the disrespectful way that lilkunta came at you, but her point about using religion as a debate point, but titling a post “Big Pimpin’ “, does in my opinion, seem a bit contradictory to me as well.”
I quoted a song from a gospel music artist, and then wove that quote into my article. I realize there is a song called “Big Pimpin’” out there in the mainstream as well, but the quote was not from that song. I hope you don’t mind my answering your comment with a question of my own: is there a problem with a Christian being relevant to modern society? Just because I’m saved, that doesn’t mean my head is buried in the sand.
First, I have not always carried myself in a holy manner, so I can relate to the term “Big Pimpin’” on that aspect. Additionally, how would I reach others within the world by using strictly Christian terms? Would you have preferred me to entitle the article, “Thou Adulterer!” Would you have continued to read if I had quoted Job 24:15 (”The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”) from the King James Version? As a Christian, I have to remain relevant in order to even attempt to reach others with the voice God has given me, whether I’m at work and carrying myself professionally, or on the street doing evangelism. I can’t knock on someone’s door and walk in their home praying in tongues! LOL How is that going to open any kind of dialog?
To be continued…
Harriets last blog post..Look Up!
Finally, you said, “If I’m wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.”
I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DON’T agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I don’t agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.
Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that.
I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a man’s testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).
Once again, all my viewpoints are based upon my biblical worldview. I’m certainly not trying to be in the business of rubbing folks the wrong way (you can get arrested for that in some places! LOL), but a lot of what I discuss about movements or issues in the world today are pointed towards the negative imbalance that can be found within the movement.
To be continued…
Harriets last blog post..Look Up!
As far as lilkunta is concerned, the root of that “discussion” was based on the fact that we were on two different wavelengths. I can’t discuss apples if you’re talking about oranges. It was totally unnecessary on both of our parts.
But to be honest, it became a running joke in my home between my husband and I (over glasses of sweet iced tea). We often wondered how we would have responded had we not been saved. We probably would have shown our tails! LOL
Once again, thanks for the comment, Mrs. S.!
i wonder why his wife didnt list the other two children as heirs ??????
Thank you Harriet for your very detailed response. I’m going to try and answer all your questions and clarify a few things in the process.
nce again, the point of view I’m coming from is strictly a biblical one. God HATES divorce. There are certain instances in the Bible and in modern day where it is necessary (children in jeopardy, abuse, adultery just to name a few), but overall, the institution of marriage was the FIRST one God created, even before He created the church. So although I’m glad there are laws in place to allow two consenting adults to do what they want to do, I still don’t agree with it from a BIBLICAL worldview.
I am a christian woman as well, with her own crazy, convuluted past so I can see, from a biblical standpoint why you have your outlook. In my opinion, however, God doesn’t want us to be miserable and abused as well. I don’t think that a person should stay in a marriage if they are constantly being mistreated and disrespected either, or if they have tried every avenue that they could and nothing worked. Sometimes people need to go their own ways. Now, I have a question for you, you say that from your standpoint, which is strictly a biblical one, that you do not believe in Divorce, because God hates divorce. When it comes to situations such as an abusive marriage, do you believe that the two couples should stay together then? It’s just that I see a flaw in not necessarily your thinking, but looking at marriage from a specific biblical standpoint. It seems too extreme, especially because marriages are often complex and grey, not necessarily black and white. I’m curious to see what you think of this.
I quoted a song from a gospel music artist, and then wove that quote into my article. I realize there is a song called “Big Pimpin’” out there in the mainstream as well, but the quote was not from that song. I hope you don’t mind my answering your comment with a question of my own: is there a problem with a Christian being relevant to modern society? Just because I’m saved, that doesn’t mean my head is buried in the sand.
First, I have not always carried myself in a holy manner, so I can relate to the term “Big Pimpin’” on that aspect. Additionally, how would I reach others within the world by using strictly Christian terms? Would you have preferred me to entitle the article, “Thou Adulterer!” Would you have continued to read if I had quoted Job 24:15 (”The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”) from the King James Version? As a Christian, I have to remain relevant in order to even attempt to reach others with the voice God has given me, whether I’m at work and carrying myself professionally, or on the street doing evangelism. I can’t knock on someone’s door and walk in their home praying in tongues! ”
Even though I found your reply slightly on the defensive side, I completely understand. I actually thought of this as soon as I posted. As a Christian woman I often have to do the same things with others. Nowadays, mixing modern relevance subjects with texts such as the Old Testament is a must in communicating to others who are not familiar with Christian workings.
inally, you said, “If I’m wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.”
I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DON’T agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I don’t agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.
Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that.
I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a man’s testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”
Okay finally getting to the last portion of your reply. Based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, and no disrespect intended, ignorant conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement is about cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship.
Okay I found the links:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170
(This is the main one, this is also where you can see a lot of the men’s commentary as well.)
http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682
I think I covered everything as thoroughly as possible. As always, I look forward to your response, b/c I love to look at things from a perspective outside of my own tunnel vision. Lol. If you have any other questions please feel free to email me directly: m.nic.stephens@gmail.com
I just read through my response I realize it’s a bit hard to read, and it looks jumbled. Here is a more edited version:
Thank you Harriet for your very detailed response. I’m going to try and answer all your questions and clarify a few things in the process.
“Once again, the point of view I’m coming from is strictly a biblical one. God HATES divorce. There are certain instances in the Bible and in modern day where it is necessary (children in jeopardy, abuse, adultery just to name a few), but overall, the institution of marriage was the FIRST one God created, even before He created the church. So although I’m glad there are laws in place to allow two consenting adults to do what they want to do, I still don’t agree with it from a BIBLICAL worldview.”
I am a christian woman as well, with her own crazy, convuluted past so I can see, from a biblical standpoint why you have your outlook. In my opinion, however, God doesn’t want us to be miserable and abused as well. I don’t think that a person should stay in a marriage if they are constantly being mistreated and disrespected either, or if they have tried every avenue that they could and nothing worked. Sometimes people need to go their own ways. Now, I have a question for you, you say that from your standpoint, which is strictly a biblical one, that you do not believe in Divorce, because God hates divorce. When it comes to situations such as an abusive marriage, do you believe that the two couples should stay together then? It’s just that I see a flaw in not necessarily your thinking, but looking at marriage from a specific biblical standpoint. It seems too extreme, especially because marriages are often complex and grey, not necessarily black and white. I’m curious to see what you think of this.
I quoted a song from a gospel music artist, and then wove that quote into my article. I realize there is a song called “Big Pimpin’” out there in the mainstream as well, but the quote was not from that song. I hope you don’t mind my answering your comment with a question of my own: is there a problem with a Christian being relevant to modern society? Just because I’m saved, that doesn’t mean my head is buried in the sand.
“First, I have not always carried myself in a holy manner, so I can relate to the term “Big Pimpin’” on that aspect. Additionally, how would I reach others within the world by using strictly Christian terms? Would you have preferred me to entitle the article, “Thou Adulterer!” Would you have continued to read if I had quoted Job 24:15 (”The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”) from the King James Version? As a Christian, I have to remain relevant in order to even attempt to reach others with the voice God has given me, whether I’m at work and carrying myself professionally, or on the street doing evangelism. I can’t knock on someone’s door and walk in their home praying in tongues! ”
Even though I found your reply slightly on the defensive side, I completely understand. I actually thought of this as soon as I posted. As a Christian woman I often have to do the same things with others. Nowadays, mixing modern relevance subjects with texts such as the Old Testament is a must in communicating to others who are not familiar with Christian workings.
“I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DON’T agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I don’t agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy…..
… There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that.”
I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a man’s testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”
Okay I’m finally getting to the last portion of your above reply. Based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, and no disrespect intended, ignorant conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement is about cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship.
Okay I found the links:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170
(This is the main one, this is also where you can see a lot of the men’s commentary as well.)
http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682
I think I covered everything as thoroughly as possible. As always, I look forward to your response, b/c I love to look at things from a perspective outside of my own tunnel vision. Lol. If you have any other questions please feel free to email me directly: m.nic.stephens@gmail.com
Also I made a grave grammatical error: The quote: ” The feminist movement is about cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman.” should read instead as:
“The feminist movement is not about figuratively cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman.”
Sorry for the error.
Hello again, Mrs. S! I think I missed whatever comment you made that you corrected. I hope you’re able to regenerate it! I’d love to read what you originally said.
Harriets last blog post..Aftermath
Hi Harriet! I actually saved the comment, so I’ll break down my response in a few pieces:
Thank you Harriet for your very detailed response. I’m going to try and answer all your questions and clarify a few things in the process.
“Once again, the point of view I’m coming from is strictly a biblical one. God HATES divorce. There are certain instances in the Bible and in modern day where it is necessary (children in jeopardy, abuse, adultery just to name a few), but overall, the institution of marriage was the FIRST one God created, even before He created the church. So although I’m glad there are laws in place to allow two consenting adults to do what they want to do, I still don’t agree with it from a BIBLICAL worldview.”
I am a christian woman as well, with her own crazy, convoluted past. I can see, from a biblical standpoint why you have your outlook. In my opinion, however, God doesn’t want us to be miserable and abused as well. I don’t think that a person should stay in a marriage if they are constantly being mistreated and disrespected either, or if they have tried every avenue that they could and nothing worked. Sometimes people need to go their own ways. Now, I have a question for you, you say that from your standpoint, which is strictly a biblical one, that you do not believe in Divorce, because God hates divorce. You touched on this briefly in your last paragraph, and you did admit in modern days it’s good that consenting adults can do what they want. When it comes to situations such as an abusive marriage, do you believe that the two couples should stay together then? The reason why I ask this ad nauseam is that your are looking from a strictly religious standpoint. It’s just that I see a flaw in not necessarily your thinking, but looking at marriage from a specific biblical standpoint. It seems too extreme, especially because marriages are often complex and grey, not necessarily black and white. I’m curious to see what you think of this.
I quoted a song from a gospel music artist, and then wove that quote into my article. I realize there is a song called “Big Pimpin’” out there in the mainstream as well, but the quote was not from that song. I hope you don’t mind my answering your comment with a question of my own: is there a problem with a Christian being relevant to modern society? Just because I’m saved, that doesn’t mean my head is buried in the sand. First, I have not always carried myself in a holy manner, so I can relate to the term “Big Pimpin’” on that aspect. Additionally, how would I reach others within the world by using strictly Christian terms? Would you have preferred me to entitle the article, “Thou Adulterer!” Would you have continued to read if I had quoted Job 24:15 (”The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”) from the King James Version? As a Christian, I have to remain relevant in order to even attempt to reach others with the voice God has given me, whether I’m at work and carrying myself professionally, or on the street doing evangelism. I can’t knock on someone’s door and walk in their home praying in tongues! ”
Even though I found your reply slightly on the defensive side, I completely understand. I actually thought of this as soon as I posted. As a Christian woman I often have to do the same things with others. Nowadays, mixing modern relevance subjects with texts such as the Old Testament is a must in communicating to others who are not familiar with Christian workings.
inally, you said, “If I’m wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.” I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DON’T agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I don’t agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.
Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that. I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a man’s testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”
Okay finally getting to the last portion of your reply. Based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, base conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement isn’t about cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship
okay I found the links:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170#comments
This is the original post, and where you can find the commentary from men as well.
http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682
I hope I answered all of your questions thoroughly, and as always I await your reply. I reading other about other perspectives because it allows me to step out of my own admitted tunnel vision.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
inally, you said, “If I’m wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.” I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DON’T agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I don’t agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.
Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that. I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a man’s testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”
Okay finally getting to the last portion of your reply. Based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, base conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement isn’t about cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship.
Here is one of your last quotes. This is one of the ones that got under my skin a little bit.
“If I’m wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.” I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DON’T agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I don’t agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.
Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that. I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a man’s testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”
Okay, so based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, base conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement isn’t about figuratively cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship
okay I found the links:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170#comments
This is the original post, and where you can find the commentary from men as well.
http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682
I hope I answered all of your questions thoroughly, and as always I await your reply. I reading other about other perspectives because it allows me to step out of my own admitted tunnel vision.
Okay, so based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, base conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement isn’t about figuratively cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship.
okay I found the links:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170#comments
This is the original post, and where you can find the commentary from men as well.
http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682
I hope I answered all of your questions thoroughly, and as always I await your reply. I reading other about other perspectives because it allows me to step out of my own admitted tunnel vision.
OK, I’m glad I got the opportunity to read what your original commentary was, Mrs. S.
Let me set the record straight…I LOVE discussions like this, and I’m all for learning from others, so in no way was there an air of me being defensive. I’m not a genius by any stretch of the imagination, and much of what I’ve learned has not only been in the classroom, but through discussions like what we are having. Being defensive is counterproductive.
That said, my apologies for getting under your skin. That certainly is not my intention.
In a nutshell, you asked if abuse was a sufficient enough reason to get divorced. I believe I touched on it briefly, but since I didn’t make it clear, I am in no way supportive of a woman remaining with a man (or vice versa) who puts her life or the lives of her children (or vice versa) in jeopardy. Furthermore, let’s be real…what GOD put together, let no man tear asunder, right? I can’t honestly say that every marriage out there was created in heaven. Some people get married on whims and flights of fancy that don’t last very long, because its foundation was built upon shaky ground.
As far as our discourse on feminism is concerned, I think the radical feminism issue I spoke about should not have been a parenthetical statement. By the way, if you allow me to digress a moment, I really appreciate you calling me to task in brining my viewpoints much more clarity. After reading your responses, I can see where I could have stated things differently to make them more understandable. Your commentary has sharpened me in many ways. I appreciate you!
To be continued…
Harriets last blog post..Acorn to Oak Tree…I want to be a Legacy!
My comment about being relevant was not spoken from a defensive standpoint. In fact, I was laughing as I typed it, because in my mind, I was wondering what the response would have been had I gone that route! LOL Hilarious!
The extreme, base conclusions I made were solely generated from my viewpoint of RADICAL feminism, not modern feminism. Hopefully that clears up any confusion I may have caused. However, any movement that’s not christocentric could easily go to those kinds of ugly extremes, even movements that claim to be godly. That’s the point I was trying to make.
I would love to read your article! I’m not a military spouse, but I served 8 years in the Air Force as an officer! There are many young ladies and gentlemen that I’ve met during my assignment with ROTC that need a good, balanced viewpoint to lean upon when they are having difficulties adjusting to being the spouse of a military member.
Once again, thank you for the discussion! I learned quite a bit, and I appreciate you taking the time out to draw out the crux of these matters! Be blessed!
Harriets last blog post..Acorn to Oak Tree…I want to be a Legacy!
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