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Ain’t No Hurt Like Church Hurt

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by  |  on January 26th, 2010  |  36 comments

churchglass

by Harriet Hairston

Another disclaimer:  This is not an attack on church leadership.  Again, I love the Lord, and have served in many aspects of leadership myself.  This article is designed to  discuss how SOME leaders abuse their spiritual authority by treating their followers harshly.  Again, I love the Lord and His people, both in leadership and lay members.

That said:

Last week I discussed how church activity had a detrimental effect on my marriage because of the imbalance of it.  I have received so many heartfelt responses regarding last week’s article about balancing church and marriage.  I wanted to share some of the personal messages and comments I received from individuals through Facebook, Essence.com and my personal e-mail.  It would seem that there is an epidemic of fear when it comes to leadership in churches, and I wanted to take the time to expose it for what it is:

  • “Parishioners are often told the physical church (and the operation of it) = God. So to deny the church is to deny God. Many pastors abuse their authority with this kind of thinking. And because it is communicated in very subtle ways many people buy into it without even realizing it.” ~ T. R. (Maryland)
  • “My hubby and I both are VERY active leaders in the church, have always been (were raised to do so).I am about to embark on a new journey (law school) and I started last year training people in the church to take over my church roles and obligations. I knew I couldn’t give both my best. Anyway, I noticed that when I started to pull back from church activities like praise team, Christmas coordinator, young adult minister, etc. there was this unspoken rule of animosity that I began to feel for pulling back. The black church makes you feel like WORKS is your ticket in, and faith has little to do with it.” ~ Y. G. (Georgia)
  • “Girl, I had to get therapy after all that mess happened.  The pastor was bullying me, and even came by my job to check on why I had stopped coming to church!  It got to the point where I wouldn’t even answer the phone if my receptionist told me he was on the line.  I haven’t stepped foot into a church since!” ~ L. H. (South Carolina)
  • “When one of the church members left, I tried to stay in touch with her.  I considered her a friend, and I was concerned about her and her marriage.  I didn’t think ostracizing her would be a good reflection of the love of Christ.  For a time we communicated,  until my pastor found out about it.  He was LIVID when he was told that I was in contact with her.  I was suspended from leadership for six months.  It confused me because I thought by caring for her and encouraging her to draw closer to Christ, I was doing the work of the Lord!” ~ R. W. (Illinois)
  • “I never had a father, so I thought my pastor’s leadership style was just how it was supposed to be done.  In my ignorance and search for a father I never had, I found a great slave master in the man I THOUGHT heard from the Lord.” ~ S. P. (Virginia)

And again, like sands through the hourglass, these are the days of our lives.  Authority in the church is supposed to guide, teach, admonish, rebuke, but above all, LOVE.  All those things are supposed to be done with the love of God as its sole motivation.  When the love of God is absent, you get the following:

  • Leaders  that feel threatened by members who have more money, talent, skill, gifts, etc. than they do.
  • Preachers that spit out personal vendettas from the pulpit.
  • Subtle threats and blatant insults from lips that should encourage and uplift.
  • A virtual blacklisting, where leaders forbid church members from talking to those who have left, or those who have decided to scale back their church activity.
  • Stalking and badgering members when they no longer invest as much time into ministry.
  • Playing “divide and conquer” with spouses.  When one wants to leave, there is a practice of targeting the one who is not so sure to get them to talk the other spouse into staying.

I would love to employ the 20/80 rule here.  I hope that this only applies to around 20% of church leaders in  the nation, and the other 80% have got it together and walk in love with the people who invest into ministry.  However, judging from the responses I got, this is as widespread as the H1N1 Virus!  We’ve got to get it together as a Body of Believers.  From families to single members to the super spiritual who may not be of any earthly good (LOL), let’s walk in love towards one another.  We don’t have to turn others away from Christ by misrepresenting Him!

Let’s give folks a better excuse than that!

God bless!

~ Harriet


About the author

Lamar and Ronnie Tyler are the creators of the award-winning blog BlackandMarriedWithKids.com . They also are behind the Amazon.com bestselling DVDs Happily Ever After: A Positive Image of Black Marriage, You Saved Me and Men Ain’t Boys that explores manhood in the African American community. The Tylers are also the proud parents of four children.



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Comments (36)

  1. {Ms. P} Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    ...as my grandmother use to say, "don't let church keep you from God." You don't need one have the other. .-= {Ms. P}´s last blog ..VDay: Wine and Dine in Washington =-.
  2. Ronnie Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    As my pastor always says: "It does matter which church you go to!!!" Some people are members of churches because their grandmother, mother, aunts and uncles go to that church. But what if that church is not feeding or teaching you in that way that you need. What if the leaders in that church are not being good examples. What if that church is not good for your marriage? .-= Ronnie´s last blog ..Ain’t No Hurt Like Church Hurt =-.
  3. Alcinia Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    I totally agree with all of the comments. We have to remember that churches operate as organizations and these organizations have a set agenda. Now this agenda is supposed to be completed through the work of the Lord however, that is not always the case because guess what? These are just people! I think (especially in the Black community) we idolize clergy leadership as demi-gods and that is what ends up getting us church hurt. I say at the end of the day remember that the pastor, preacher, priest, reverend, etc. is a human being and has fallible ways in him. God also gave YOU a mind so use it! And last but not least those in authority are in no way closer to God that you are. We all have the same access to God. Try receiving from God personally.
  4. Suzette Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    I love these comments, let me add this: people need to know who they are, & not allow their titles or positions to dictate who they are. People in leadership position in church sometimes flip out on you, 'cause they don't know who they are, or whose they are. Also, sometimes all they have going for them is church, they have no outside life, no ambitions or dreams to follow on their own. To thine own self be true, @ the end of the day, God is looking for a clean church, we(our bodies, ourselves) are the church, & our bodies have but one job, & that's to house the spirit of God, & let it be operational in our lives. The Holy Ghost leads u into all truth & knowledge. Sometimes inside the church there's more fighting going on than in the streets, and all the while souls are perishing, 'cause people fightin' over position. It's just so high school to me!!! Take every title, call me by my government name!! :>)
  5. Tamara Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    My husband and I have such a history with this, sigh. We will be moving to Texas later this year and I am ALREADY apprehensive about finding a church home there. The expectations just by visiting each church are ridiculous, they all want us to join immediately and then we are hounded weeks after the fact. Sigh, im just going to stay positive about it all and pray God helps us with discernment.
  6. Harriet Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Wow...all the comments are right up my alley in terms of my thoughts towards this topic. It DOES anger me, however, that there are so many out there who purposely abuse the authority given to them by the Lord to mistreat impressionable people like this. I think all in all, what Tamara said about DISCERNMENT and what everyone else said about knowing their own identity in Christ are absolutely imperative. From the pulpit to the back pew, we all have a role we play, and that role must be enacted through prayer, wisdom and humility. .-= Harriet´s last blog ..Paradise =-.
  7. LSB Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    As a minister of the gospel it saddened me to read these experiences. While no one can question the validity of the hurt that has been expressed we can offer HOPE. Hope that the Lord is near those who are broken hearted, He promises to bind the wounds of all that are in despair and comfort all that mourn. Mourning is not something that just happens over death of a loved one, friend or colleague. It happens sometimes when the ones we trust harm us. I just want to say that there are definitely ministers and ministries that care about PEOPLE and not WORKS. The Bible teaches us to watch people;'s FRUIT bc we know them that are HIS by their fruit AND love. I just pray that God heals and comforts all of you. Lastly, it is my sincere hope that you allow Him to lead you to a fellowship of believers that can speak life and healing in those areas. God bless you all!
  8. signatureladyjeff Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Man! I thought I was the only one who'd ever speak on such personal but public issues regarding the church! My prayer to the Lord is that one day we as a community of fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord will work together. It's difficult to be excepted today when we attend church because we are often separated by our economic standings financially in society through what we have or what we do for a living or even who we associate with !!! People of the church especially leaders tell people to come as you are but when you get there the story is disgustingly different! I have been to many churches that wanted to know as much as they could about me personally without ever asking had I truly had a true spiritual conversion with the Lord. For all brothers and sisters from all creeds who have been hurt as I once have, stay the course ,the Lord loves to take the very hurts of his children to use them as opportunities to minister to the tragedies and pains of other believers and non-believers! Keep God first even in the mist of adversity, it always strengthens your faith!
  9. Aja Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Harriet I could write a whole book on this but I will try not to! I have a relative has been dealing with this very issue recently. She has been a faithful member of the same church for more than 20 years which I left a couple of years ago because I have seen the pastor be downright nasty to people on several occasions. As a faithful churchgoer, my relative looks at her relationship with the church must like a marriage: once in, you are supposed to follow the leadership that God has appointed without question. Recently the pastor publicly disrespected her in front of the congregation and she is finally making the decision to leave this particular church. I had to tell her that God did not mean for us to be abused in any relationship, and that includes your relationship with the church. Yes, leaders are people, and they have their good days and bad days like anyone else, but with leadership positions there lies a certain responsibility. If a leader in any place, whether it be work, the church, or anywhere else is consistently abusing that responsibility then you need to find a place where you can grow spiritually. The pastor and God are not one in the same, and I think people do need to realize that leaving a particular church does not mean you are abandoning God. I think the ability to follow the leader (meaning the pastor not God) without question or thought is why so many things get done in God's name that are so far from Godly.
  10. Dee Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Great and important topic, and one that so many people have had experience with, and yet is so often swept under the rug. I was a part of a world wide church of all races and social demographics that was nearly destroyed because of the pride and general misconduct of the leadership, which was being done in the name of God but was really in the name of themselves. Instead of love, legalism became the norm and once that happens then, leaders are developed based on their charisma and ability to orate, and not because of their true vision of how to move the church closer to God. There was without exaggeration a mass exodus from the church. There were churches that split (Large Churches), there was legal actions, and threats of all kinds. The thing is, when you are in it, you cant see it, and so after being in this church for a long time, the things that i saw became the norm and i was anesthetized. It took some pretty severe wake up calls for me to see what was really going on. I am still a part of that church, but a lot of things has changed and I believe we are moving in the right direction, but I remain vigilant so that I will not become anesthetized again.
  11. My Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    OMG.... I love it and I know that good is using you as a mouth peace for many people and I just pray that you hold on to what God has given you..,, to reach the people . I just pray that the people that you/we left behind don`t get left behind by God because of people that call themselves God sent,,,,..... Thank God for true heart~ed people like you!
  12. design Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    I am Christian but I know that many churches are acting like cults and have departed from the warning of God. I have suffered from Churches burning me, in retrospect it was good because I then investigated when they were coming from. It was horrible, I knew why they targetted me because they could not control me. Who they cannot control they destroy especially if they want to introduce dangerous practises. I encourage anyone who is hurt to start to investigate why the leaders are acting the way they do, start investigating the links of the leaders and you will be shocked. There wil be a falling away in the last days
  13. Anna Tuesday - 26 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    signatureladyjeff January 26, 2010 at 3:16 pm Man! I thought I was the only one who’d ever speak on such personal but public issues regarding the church! My prayer to the Lord is that one day we as a community of fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord will work together. It’s difficult to be excepted today when we attend church because we are often separated by our economic standings financially in society through what we have or what we do for a living or even who we associate with !!! People of the church especially leaders tell people to come as you are but when you get there the story is disgustingly different! I have been to many churches that wanted to know as much as they could about me personally without ever asking had I truly had a true spiritual conversion with the Lord. ~~~~~~~~~ Many Churches do say come as you are, but they don't mean it. I don't dress like I'm going to the club when I attend Church, but some seem more like a "Fashion Show". I have heard that there are some Chuches in big cities that have "ATMs", and some that want your W2 stubs. not a Church I want to attend. I will admit I have not been to Church in a couple of years, but the last one I attended is the Church my husband starting going to at the age of 6. His parents still attend along with his siblings and their offspring. I like watching Church on tv.
  14. lapreghiera Wednesday - 27 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    http://www.bretlsimmons.com/2010-01/if-abusive-leaders-do-not-change-their-behavior-i-can-and-will-withdraw-my-support/ I found this great site that is really about organization communications and management, but if it doesn't speak to the situations in church today as it is (especially my church at present under new leadership), after the teaching of the Bible, I don't know what to say. One former member put it simply "Its like they are possessed..." and that is what I see weekly, and I wonder where was the disconnect after all these years of fellowship together. But the Bible says the wheat and tare would grow together, so you start to see these qualities in people, or they are being deceived, or manipulated by poor presentation of the gospel. I am already at the non-support stage, but yanno they can't kick me out - although the pastor previously told some people to leave if they didn't like it earlier on. So I am there, along with many others watching the mystery of iniquity work ( 2 Thes. 2:7) After being in position 9 months, the new pastor felt qualified to eulogize the 99yr old last charter member of our church ( who died over the christmas holiday while he was visiting family, did not return til the day of her wake-quasi understandable it was the holidays, but read a packaged eulogy VERBATIM from sermoncentral.com) instead of letting a 40yr veteran of the church, pastor, and the person who had power of attorney over her estate handle the services. Prior to that, the the funeral of an extended family member and a young TITHE PAYING couples wedding were relocated because he again required that he officiate (for a fee of course). These actions at best are poor PR, but really show his inability to gauge the mood and sentiment of the people he was "awarded" leadership over, and make an attempt to help ease the transition of leadership and the administration. I could say more, but just pray for me and GOD'S TRUE CHURCH spread EVERYWHERE.
  15. T. Rogers Friday - 29 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Harriet, Thanks for quoting me up top. But for the record, I live in California not Maryland. :) By the way, you are really doing a great work with this series of threads.
  16. T. Rogers Friday - 29 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Regarding the actual topic: Harriet I am like you. I want to believe the majority of the church leaders out there are good people being led by God. The last thing I want to do is brand ALL church leaders because of my experience. It is hard, though. I know so many people who have had very similar experiences. They have been manipulated. They have been led to believe false things. They have be taught blatant falsehoods as Biblical truth. And the list goes on. Still, I won't stop believing there are good churches out there and good people in those churches. However, I must admit. My previous experience has made me very apprehensive about getting out and actually finding a new church home.
  17. {JeLisa} @ Blogging Ever After Friday - 29 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Gosh...reading about people's negative experiences with their church leadership actually made me really sad. Although our church's Ministry Coordinator {who's the second highest leader} has absolutely pushed my husband and I to want to drop our leadership roles and leave our church, this article has actually made me feel blessed to have the Pastor that I do. .-= {JeLisa} @ Blogging Ever After´s last blog ..Two Blogs That Feed The Domestic Goddess In Me =-.
  18. {JeLisa} @ Blogging Ever After Friday - 29 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Oh, and P.S. I'm really enjoying the church-related articles on this site! .-= {JeLisa} @ Blogging Ever After´s last blog ..Two Blogs That Feed The Domestic Goddess In Me =-.
  19. Harriet Saturday - 30 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    @ T. Rogers, Oops! My apologies! Although I'm from all over (military), I live in Louisiana. I have a friend here who is originally from California. It would be a CARDINAL sin for me to imply she was from the east coast! So thanks for clearing that one up, and please forgive me! I thought you were from the same area as Lamar and Ronnie. To your commentary about the article, it's such a knee jerk reaction to try to brand all spiritual leadership with this kind of negativity. My heart won't allow it because I have been "spiritual leadership" for a little over a decade now. That said, I understand where a lot of people are coming from. When the hurt cuts so deep from someone you had so much trust in, that can damage a person. Thank God Jesus didn't abuse His authority like that. I totally understand your apprehension. I've challenged myself not to paint the next ministry I'm planted in through the lens of the one I just left. I don't want to miss out on God because I'm being suspicious. I'm just going to have to ensure the line between godly wisdom and fleshly suspicion is not crossed. .-= Harriet´s last blog ..Paradise =-.
  20. Harriet Saturday - 30 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    @ JeLisa, First of all, welcome to BMWK! I'm glad you're enjoying the content here, and I hope we can continue to present you with thought provoking material! To your comment, I was heartbroken at the magnitude of messages I got regarding "church hurt." Then that sorrow turned into rage, and I had to harness it so this article wouldn't come out looking like a personal vendetta against all church leadership (including myself). I think it's important to acknowledge that this type of foolishness happens. But once we understand it, our next point of action is to continue to pray that we don't become perpetrators and/or victims of it. That's only possible through the leading of the Holy Spirit, as someone else said on the "Getting Beyond" article that was written. Again, welcome, and thank you so much for your input. It is valued highly on this site! .-= Harriet´s last blog ..Paradise =-.
  21. Harriet Saturday - 30 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    @ LSB, You are so right! The compassion in your words was almost tangible, and I couldn't agree with you more! I was going to leave the whole church topic alone until I read your comment. The Lord challenged me to write one more piece to provide the very hope you spoke about. Thanks for being a leader after God's heart! @ signatureladyjeff You said, "Keep God first even in the midst of adversity, it always strengthens your faith!" You are so right! That's where the rubber meets the road when dealing with "church hurt." Are you going to go the road of anger and malice, or the road of the Lord. No matter how much it goes against the flow of how I may be feeling at any particular moment, I choose to follow Jesus. Thanks for reflecting that sentiment! @ Aja and Lapreghiera, Thanks for the input! Lapreghiera, I really liked the content of that link you posted. And Aja, you said, "If a leader in any place, whether it be work, the church, or anywhere else is consistently abusing that responsibility then you need to find a place where you can grow spiritually. " Whether it's at work, in the marketplace or at church, we have to be wise, mature and humble enough to know when our season is up. Otherwise we do damage to the very identity that Christ planted within us by remaining in a place that is beating us down. Outstanding points, ladies! .-= Harriet´s last blog ..Paradise =-.
  22. Genuine Sunday - 31 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Looking back, if I had known what I know now, I would have left the church a long time ago. Sixty-two years old, been in church all my life until five years ago, join church at age 9. I found out God takes care of you just as much in church as out. That's why sometime the sinner does well. God loves him too. I am a christian whether I be in or out of the church. I love God.
  23. Genuine Sunday - 31 / 01 / 2010 Reply
    Alone with the other comments I made, very good article. You told it like it is.
  24. Natasha Wednesday - 03 / 02 / 2010 Reply
    Wow! It was just yesterday that I was thinking about this...well I'm always thinking about it. I couldn't even add my e-mail, because some church stalker might be reading. I was at a church for a long time that I loved, but I realized that we were headed the wrong way spiritually. The church itself was bigger than God as the masses were swooned under church leadership. Individuality was frowned upon and only a few were exalted, while thousands sat in the pews awaiting their turn. I was one that had been exalted and it was killing me, because everywhere I turned my leadership style and approach were frowned upon, but the fruit was there, i.e. folks getting saved, etc. I'm not there now, but I'm still urked about the way that people were almost meant to feel that magic doors open when it's their turn to be used in ministry, married to a godly spouse, etc. In the black church these lies are perpetuated again and again, because of the beautiful "control" factor that lurks in every institution. People have gifts and they aren't using them, because it isn't their time or heaven forbid God's will. Folk are getting married or dating because angels aren't nesting on their heads and whispering in their ears holy things about the (wo)man on the pew to the left. I could go on an on, but I won't...I'm at a church now that has allowed me to heal, but one thing I know and understand is that I won't get caught up at a "black or white" church next time....I 'll be at one that is following after Christ, that gives grace and allows people to not only hear the word, but do it too. Thanks for your post...I now know I'm not the only one. I pray that we heal from this and continue to seek Christ's face and DO His will.
  25. Katrina Thursday - 04 / 03 / 2010 Reply
    Wow, I'm happy to have found this site. It's so sad that we've all been through so much in the church. I've been so hurt by the pastor and their leaders, that I don't want to go to another church. I hear so much of this going on an it's just sickening. I can't even imagine how Christ feels an see's all this going on. Put your TRUST in God not man!!! Man will fail you! God Bless each an everyone you!! God is in control!
  26. Harriet Thursday - 04 / 03 / 2010 Reply
    @ Genuine, This is a series of three articles, and I definitely don't want you to draw your conclusion on this one alone. I'm not saying that church is hopeless. I believe it is a staple of the community when led and served in balance. It's easy to get caught up in the kind of negativity that I mentioned above and then throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. I'm going to tell it like it is...the church ain't perfect. But neither are we. I just refuse to make it a priority above my family from now on. God first, my husband, my family, THEN the church. PERIOD. Thanks for the comments! @ Natasha, You said, "Individuality was frowned upon and only a few were exalted, while thousands sat in the pews awaiting their turn. I was one that had been exalted and it was killing me, because everywhere I turned my leadership style and approach were frowned upon, but the fruit was there, i.e. folks getting saved, etc." OMG...are you me? LOL Then, when you said, "People have gifts and they aren’t using them, because it isn’t their time or heaven forbid God’s will." Let me tell you, I've seen that happen a million times. It's just up to the individual to ensure they keep their eyes open, and REFUSE to ignore the red flags when they arise. Perhaps it is just a momentary issue within the church. That's totally understandable, because as I told Genuine, no church is perfect. But if it's a PATTERN of abuse and a vicious cycle that perpetuates itself over and over again, it's up the individual to determine whether or not they want to continually subject themselves to it or not. I was talking to a Christian counselor earlier, and she said it's time out for folks to say, "I'm waiting on God," when God is waiting on them to remove themselves from that abusive situation and move forward into their divine destiny....Girl, you got me started. LOL Great commentary, Natasha. I really appreciate and respect the fact that you did not allow that negativity to prevent you from seeking God in another church. @ Katrina I know exactly where you're coming from. As I pray, I keep reminding myself that God is most definitely in control, and He will move within the timing of a person's willingness to be moved. We have to refocus our trust, faith and hope back in the Lord. I agree with you wholeheartedly!
  27. barbara Friday - 23 / 04 / 2010 Reply
    hello, i recently left a great community church that i had attended for 12 yrs...i wanted to go to a closer location, and hoped my 20 yr old daughter would start going with me again. i am a single mom, and my friends were concernced with my switching churches. i ended up sending mean-spirited, angry emails to pastors and friends and now feel horrible - i did ask their forgiveness, but still feel terribly regretful. What more can I do??
  28. Harriet Friday - 23 / 04 / 2010 Reply
    @ barbara, your comment leaves me with more questions than answers. why did you leave? did you change cities? what prompted the letters? why were you so angry? one thing i will say is that God always convicts, but never condemns. you feel like you did something wrong, and the moment you sincerely let it be known to the parties you offended, yourself and God, forgiveness took place from above. you're not going to hell because you had a few stupid moments. if that were the case, i'd be on my way there with gasoline drawers on. LOL but you can START by allowing God's grace to move you beyond your self-condemnation.
  29. Anonymous Thursday - 06 / 05 / 2010 Reply
    I can relate . Just recently I came encounter with spiritual abuse. I did not agree with a statement that the sunday school teacher had made. As it turned out, the disagreement turned into a debate. One of the deacons to the church entered the conversation, only to add fuel to the fire. Then that same deacon went back and told the pastor that me and the sunday school teacher's husband were debating Gods word in sunday school. What make it so bad, is that the debate was not even between me and the sunday school teacher's husband. It was between me and the sunday school teacher. Then when the pastor came into the church, during his sermon, he began to mention how people are coming to church with their children having nappy heads. It just so happened that day, my eight year old son did not comb his hair and he was the only child in the church with a nappy head. What a horrible experience. Why must I be subjected to that particuliar spiritual abuse just because I am in leadership training. To be chastise by god is one thing but to sit there and have a pastor attack you through your own children is a very hurting and traumatic experience. I never intended to debate God's word. Now I am still hurt because of a trouble making deacon who really had no business going back and telling the pastor anything. I believe what that deacon did was sow discord among the brethen. He knew by going back to the pastor and telling him that was goiong to make the pastor very irate. This particuliar deacon is a troublemaker and yet no one is doing anything about it.
  30. Anonymous Thursday - 06 / 05 / 2010 Reply
    Maybe I need to explain the situation in it's entirety. First of all, I am in leadership training. I did not leave my church. Please, I do not want you to think that for a minute. On Sunday, May 2, 2010. My family and I went to sunday school. During the sunday school lesson, the sunday school teacher made a statement to the sunday school class. She said that a lady told her that she wanted to receive salvation so that she would die and go to heaven to see her mother. The sunday school teacher told us as a class that she told the lady. What? Is that why you want to go to heaven. Baby when you get to heaven, you will not even know who your mother is. The sunday school teacher then began to tell the sunday school class that when we get to heaven, we will not even know each other because we will not have the same bodies. Of course, the bible does say that God is going to give us a new glorified body. But I began to explain to the sunday school teacher that I did not agree with her based on the fact that I had a child who died 21 years ago and a man of god told me that if I lived right, one day I will see my daughter again. The sunday school teacher began to tell me that sometimes people say and tell us things that are not true. She continued to use the word of god to try to convince me as well as others that were in the sunday school class that in heaven we will not know each other. I refuse to accept what she was saying and she began to get offended. To make matters worse, this trouble making deacon entered the conversation. Not to make things better but to make matters worse. He began to tell me that if I did not agree with the sunday school teacher, I could go and ask the pastor if whether or not we will or will not know each other in the afterlife. The sunday school teacher's husband began to get upset and started attacking me. He began to tell me not to go to the pastor. He than began to tell me that "I needed to come to sunday school and that I needed to go home and read the book of revelations. I explained to him that I do come to sunday school. In my heart, I felt like my God! All of this because I do not agree with the sunday school teacher! I sensed that the sunday school teacher was offended and I tried to explain to her that sometimes, people are going to disagree and that we do not have to get offended when someone wants to ask the pastor a question in search of clarity. The sunday school teacher then said to me wait a minute! You had your time to talk. Now it's my turn. I am not offended. After sunday school, she wouldnt even look at me and all I could do is feel the spirit of offense in the air. Suddenly, the pastor drove up to the church and that same deacon (who loves to sow discord among the brethren, went out of the church to speak with the pastor. When the pastor entered the church, he appeared to be very quiet and unhappy. What came next really hurt me to the core. He then said during his message how people are coming to church with their children's hair all nappy. My eight year old son was in church that morning and he did not comb his hair that morning. I did not notice it because I was so busy rushing out of my house to get to sunday school on time. But I was horrified because I felt like the pastor was attacking me through my children. It was like he was saying 'Well you want to debate in God's house here take that." I have never in all of my 19 years of being a christian encountered such a horrible experience. Even when he made the comment about my child's nappy hair people were yelling "Go ahead pastor that's good preaching. Since when does insulting people are their children become a part of good preaching. I was so hurt and confused. When I came to the church the next day, I tried to explain everything to the pastor but he said that I as well as the sunday school teacher's husband needed to go home and search the scriptures for clarity. Then when we came to church yeasturday he announced in front of the congregation There has been a debate going on around the church between two people. First of all debating in God's house is prohibited. Then he asked me to furnish information from God's word to verify that we will know each other when we get to heaven I read a few scriptures. He said that the scriptures did not prove my point. He then asked the sunday school teacher if he had scriptures to back up the statement that we will not recognize one another. He also tod him that he did not give enough evidence to back up his claim. My point is this. I am still hurt and humiliated and confused behind this whole experience. When class was over I did go over to the pastor and told him that I would never debate in God's house again. I also told him that that was never my intentions to began with. The sunday school teacher's husband came over and over heard our conversation. He than began to get loud and tell the pastor that he is going to continue to stand on God's word. The pastor then told him that if he was to debate or argue in god's house again, he would be escorted out. The man then walked out and disregarded what the pastor said. I have not left my church. Again the whole experience left me doubting God's love for me.
  31. Marie200628 Friday - 30 / 07 / 2010 Reply
    I think that it is so important to know God for yourself. God said he would give us pastors after his own heart. So we must always pray and becareful. Jesus loves you more than any one and thats all that matter. Seek Jesus love not man and dont be afraid to talk to God about any and everything he loves you and he hears you. God Bless
  32. Keribeardsley Monday - 15 / 11 / 2010 Reply
    I just read this. Very good article. My husband and I have just gone through a horrible time after giving so much to our church. All those testimonies on here has happened to us. we feel mandated by God to start a healing and restoration ministry for church leadership especially. I will copy this article and use it as a resource. Thank you.
  33. Keribeardsley Monday - 15 / 11 / 2010 Reply
    I just read this. Very good article. My husband and I have just gone through a horrible time after giving so much to our church. All those testimonies on here has happened to us. we feel mandated by God to start a healing and restoration ministry for church leadership especially. I will copy this article and use it as a resource. Thank you.