Michigan Man Has 23 Kids With 14 Different Women: Including One Per Year From 89-99

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by Lamar Tyler | on September 29th, 2010 | 31 comments

A Michigan man that impregnated at least one woman every year between 1989 and 1999 has just been sentenced to 23-48 months for past due child support that amounts to 533,000 dollars. A court report found that Howard Veal (pictured above) has fathered 23 children by 14 different women. I’m not sure what amazes me more, the fact that he just won’t strap up or the fact that more women keep dealing with this guy.

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To get a story like this further emphasizes the conversations we’ve had on the site over the past week. From the No Wedding, No Womb posts to Delano’s Confronting the Crisis of Father Absence to Aja’s How Single Are You with a Whole Bunch of Kids we’ve been addressing some of the major issues in the black community but is anyone listening? What I’ve seen over the past week is what I’ve known for the past few years. If you try to address the out of wedlock birthrate you’re putting down single moms. If you tell men they are not stepping up and being the fathers and husbands they need to be they say you’re emasculating them. Well what’s left? Maybe someone needs to get their feelings hurt in order for change to happen and for our communities to regain their glory.

BMWK family what do you think about this story? How can we address the issues we have in our community without anyone’s feelings getting hurt? Should we care about feelings or just about results?

About the author

Lamar and Ronnie Tyler are the creators of the award-winning blog BlackandMarriedWithKids.com . They also are behind the Amazon.com bestselling DVDs Happily Ever After: A Positive Image of Black Marriage, You Saved Me and Men Ain’t Boys that explores manhood in the African American community. The Tylers are also the proud parents of four children.

Sharronda

When a man has that many children and isn’t about anything, why would a woman have children with him? This man has 23 children and she expects child support. He doesn’t have steady employment why bother for a nickle a month.
http://twitter.com/LamarTyler Lamar Tyler

Basically it’s a lost cause on the child support front but what can be done to stop people like this from creating more kids?
SweetMom

Seriously? Who cares about feelings. The truth is the truth anyhow.Like it, love it or whatever. The reason that we have these issues in the first place is because society is more interested in being politically correct and socially pleasant than telling the truth about what is. During the civil rights movements, we put the truth on the table and said “Here ya go. Deal with this.” and we saw significant change. We have just began raising weak people by trying to friend up instead of being honest. Truth: Sleeping with people other than your own spouse and having children out of wedlock (whether one or twelve) are wrong and dangerous to society. It encourages sexual promiscuity at a young age (because children see this example and adopt it as correct) and it discourages monogamy and fidelity.
Toya114

I say forget their feelings and tell them what they need to hear! It’s part of they saying “I’m not going to tell you what you want to hear, I’m going to tell you what you need to hear”. Women and men need to be more careful who you are lying down with. If you don’t know what his 10year plan is, then he don’t need to know what your insides feel like! We ALL have to wake up!
Dianne M Daniels

OMFG…WHAT were the women thinking? This is just incredible – it is unfathomable that at least SOME of the women in this story didn’t know about each other. 23 kids by 14 women means some of these women have MULTIPLE children with this disgrace of a human being…WHAT are the women thinking? It’s bad enough that this man kept being irresponsible and the worst kind of promiscuous – has anyone tested him to be sure he doesn’t have an STD? The children will NEVER have a real relationship with him, and likely will not have one with each other. This is a very bad Jerry Springer show waiting to happen – and there will be some poor misguided woman out there trying to claim this man as her own and denying that he fathered all of these children…smh
Spenseravery

I ASSume that it is no-longer required to get to know someone anymore. I’m feeling you, your feeling me…..

Just a few questions that my wife asked me EARLY on when we were dating, seeing each other or my new personal favorite (courtsey of my daughter) “Just Kicking It”.

My girlfriends (now my wife) questions over several weeks of “Dating”:

-”so, do you have any kids?”
-”How’s your Mother, you don’t mentioned her much?”
-”what are some of your future plans?”
-”where do you work”
Natasha

I hate to say anyone is a lost cause, but it may just apply to this case. This man is still making excuses; he hasn’t gotten it. Pure ignorance. I have to believe that people who know better do better. If they don’t it’s malicious intent. It’s up to the women in this case. This man is a poster child of a deadbeat dad. Stop sleeping with him. As long as women continue to sleep with him he’ll continue to procreate.
Anonymous

Like it or not, at some point we’re going to have to come out of denial. Single parenthood creates cycles of poverty. And if we are ever going to change our legacy from one of which each generation starts over in the red, we must eradicate the out-of-wedlock birth rates.
Essence_68

I wouldn’t necessarily say that you are “putting down” single moms, but I would address the air of judgement that comes along with assuming that all single mothers are the same. We also have dysfunctional marriages, and men who are husbands but absent fathers and poor mates. As a society we tend to value titles and labels rather without care or concern about much else. Many women marry, just to have the label “wife”. I do not know how that is any healthier for our community when men are not prepared, but forced into marriages and women are ignoring the signs of an unhealthy relationship (i.e. manipulation, infidelity etc.) just to appear valuable in society’s eyes.

I am a 35 year old woman who has a 5 year old daughter for a man I am no longer in a relationship with (she was born in year 6). We met at 22, and spent the next five years finishing school and establishing careers. I own my own home, car is paid in full (and its not a 15 year old piece of crap – lol), I am a professional, and hold 2 university degrees. I do not come from, nor am I creating, a cycle of poverty. Her father and I co-parent and I am not a stereotype. All single mothers, and marriages are not created equally, and painting everyone with the same brush is insulting. We certainly don’t like it when the “other” portrays our race like that (all the same) – do we?
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http://theyoungmommylife.com Tara Pringle Jefferson

@Essence – Everytime someone decides to talk about out of wedlock birth rates (and before you ask, yes, I had a kid before I got married), people are quick to say that not all marriages are perfect or not all men are prepared for marriage or marriage doesn’t work for everyone. It is usually a single mom making this point.

I think the No Wedding, No Womb movement is not necessarily about marriage. It’s about the fact that people are waaaay too cavalier about having babies. People (men AND women) aren’t taking the time to get to know each other before they get intimate – skipping an important part of the process that lets you know if that certain someone is good father/mother material. An intense wave of one-night stands, casual hook-ups or long-term booty call status has led us to the place where a case like Howard Veal is even possible. HOW is it that he was having sex with no regard for the potential (and now very real) children he was creating? HOW is it that FOURTEEN women got into bed with him and were careless (yes, I’m calling them careless) enough to get pregnant by him? HOW does this happen?

While not all single moms can be painted with the same brush, can’t we agree that some situations (Mommy and Daddy both present and providing the child(ren) with all the love and support they can stand) are better than others?
Anonymous

@Essence_68: I, too, am a single mother who was a teenage mom three times, and had a fourth child at 21. Like you, I own my own home (3 in fact), drive a SUV that’s paid in full, and have a professional career. And, no, I’m not a stereotype.

At one point I was just like you, going on the defensive for all single moms, because I got tired of the negative way that we were always portrayed in the media: lazy, unemployed, uneducated. I was going to be the martyr and show the world that there are single moms doing great things (Katie Couric, Joy Mangano, Valerie Jarrett…). I even went so far as to create a mentoring program, but what I learned is that I was up against an institution. Women who wave the single mom banner are usually the same ones who wave the strong black woman banner in tandem. It’s a mindset more than a marital status.

I write for an online coparenting organization, and even though all of the mama writers are single moms, there are some who don’t refer to themselves as such. I know it is what it is (we ARE single moms), but usually the women who prefer the title, are the ones who see strength in the struggle and want to be acknowledged as such. They work hard, and the world needs to take note and give them that much-deserved pat on the back.
Kisha

I don’t think it’s “assuming all single mothers are the same”. It’s making a generalization; which yes, will put some people in the category that don’t belong.

However, there are stats on top of stats that state that children born to single mothers are more likely to become unwed parents themselves. They’re more likely to develop problems related to school., etc, etc.

I am a single mother (well…until Saturday!). The point is, no one person can do the job of 2. Men and women lend very different qualities and skills to the upbringing of their children. A mother doing her very best job (regardless of finances) still can’t do as well as TWO parents doing their very best job. And, I don’t care how devoted a dad is, when he isn’t there everyday, he’s not 100%. That’s not a putdown. My soon-to-be-husband is a father of 2. He does his best, but he knows that being out of the house with them is somewhat detrimental.

Which goes back to the original response…when you’re making babies at 18, 20, 25 with someone who you aren’t married to, this is the outcome.
Anonymous

You nailed it. I listened to an interview with Will Smith’s ex-wife, Sheree, and she said that even though their co-parenting dynamic is great, it’s still SECOND best.

I once wore my single mom tiara a little too tight as a way for others, including my children, to say, “Hey look at me and the awesome job I did ALONE.” But I realized that I don’t want to continue to perpetuate the cycle of single motherhood that was passed down from my mother to me. I don’t want my daughters to look at me and say, hey I don’t need no man, just look at how well my mama did. I want my daughters to break the cycle. I want them to see the virtues and benefits of marriage, and raising children with the biological mother and father in the home.
Keianna_johnson

I don’t know wither to laugh at this story or to cry…these poor babies. The Father as well as the mothers are a trip in a half. They are so focused on having sex, that all of their common sense was tossed out of the window. I would be wrong to jump on the father without stomping on the mothers. These Adult were more focused on the pleasure (which was unprotected, & we wonder why the AIDS rate is so high..smh) than on the consequences of children being born into this dysfunctional life. Now we are going to more children without a father, more thugs, more drug dealers, more emotionally unstable individuals etc….I know someone is going to be mad at me saying this but it is the truth….I see why the God doesn’t want us to have sex before marriage….God has common sense.
Anonymous

Single mothers have always been a fact in ALL communities not just the black community, some by choice, some not. I raised my two children by myself and I thank God all the time that I had a decent job. I could meet their needs and some of their wants but they didn’t get trips to Disneyland or Disney World. The worse part about this whole situation is that I made sure that their fathers knew that I wanted them in their lives. We did not have any court ordered visitation or scheduled visits, they would come whenever they wanted to and as often as they wanted to. My daughter’s father chose to divorce both of us, my sons father was just too selfish and focused on his needs and wants. My oldest is nearly 27 and the youngest is 19 and I feel so guilty that I didn’t pick better men that could be real fathers to two children that I think are the greatest and deserve the best of everything. We women have to remember it is not about us, it’s about our children- we might not need a man in our lives but our children do!!!! It’s not uncle’s or grandpa’s job to try to fill in for dad.
Anonymous

@sikuvmes: I told my girls if they want a good role model for their children, they should pick a good daddy. Like you said, it’s not the uncle’s or grandpa’s job to try to fill in. We, single moms, put more thought and effort into picking mentors and stepdads than we do biological fathers. I know I did, and this must stop.
Anna

I did not read all the comments. Who is paying for his stay in jail? Tax dollars, the mothers of his kids putting money on his books. In some States jail is a business and you have to pay to stay.
~~~~~~~~
Some women really don’t care how many kids a man has. Not sure why. Maybe it’s because they want to say they have a man, and honestly think they can change him and he will stay w/her if they start a family. I don’t want a man w/one kid let alone 23. Did this man lie to these woman and they thought they were the only “baby mama”. Hopefuly the Judge ordered him to get a education/skill while in jail. If he has to serve all his time he should get out of Jail w/a Triple Masters Degree. LOL.
toejam

what they need to do is tie his tube.
http://www.makesmewannaholler.com EPayne

Can’t really say much more than what has already been said here, but maybe he’ll have the next 2 to 4 years to think on what a ridiculous and awful life he’s led and the real hell he’s going to have to pay when those kids come of age and come looking for him either to forgive him or spit on him — either way he’ll probably wish he were dead whether he shows remorse or not.

Oh, I do have one thing to say while shaking my head: “Damn!”
Mother First

First of all, let’s just stay on point. This man is a bum of all bums, and yes the women that chose to lie with him are obviously lacking in a great amount of self worth and do not understand that they are jewels. Let’s face it, women and even men who jump into bed with people are looking for something and a “good time” is just a mask for all that they are lacking. Unfortunately, because neither of them love themselves or sees any worth in themselves, their children will probably encounter the same cycle. So, ladies and gentlemen, take a look in the mirror, do you like what you see? Can you love what you see? If not, stop looking for a “hook-up”, a “mate”, a “one nighter”, and start seeking to find the Great Fulfillment.
http://blog.gods-man.com Gods_Man

My bride and I did the same thing. We used to get teased because our dating sounded more like a business acquisition. We talked goals(10 yr plan), family, children, church, work. We have a bunch(9) of god-children, plus our 2, that we are training to do the same level of vetting.
Lornezapata

I could not agree with you more.Black people would rather try to smooth things over and ignore what’s going on.My wife and I were just discussing how some of our relatives ended up living together and how their parents had set a bad example for them when they were young.God did not intend for all of this sexual immorality.Either you’re married or you’re not.If you’re not,then you have NO business engaging in sexual activity.Period!
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PMGWWQLA46HH7HGEBSLT5STJFI George McCasland

The first question that jumps to mind is how many of these children is has he really fathered?

If he has not cooperated with child support, I would be willing to guess that he did not cooperate with the initial actions to take a paternity test, meaning that many, if not all of these children, may not be his. If he was uncooperative, than they would simply enter a default order, and once that order is in place, it cannot be overturned in most states, regardless of paternity.

Last January there was a news item of a 21-year-old man being informed that his taxes were being intercepted because he owed child for his 15-year-old daughter. Child support enforcement would not accept his birth certificate as evidence that he could not be the father. Once ordered, must pay.

Before we moan and groan over this man, perhaps that now he is in jail, they can do the paternity test and actually see if he has any children.

Now, if one or all of them are his, what about the women? I imagine that mostly knew about the other children as they think it is okay to share a Black Man because of the shortage of them. I heard that a lot about that when I was driving my cab. I would frequently take the same African-American man to five different addresses in one evening, and the woman would come out and pay for the cab. They knew where he had last been, and where he was going next. They didn’t care, as they wanted children by him.

In addition, what do we do now about all the fatherless children? Will they grow up to contribute to 85% of crime? That is the #1 common factor found in those who commit crime. “Ominously, the most reliable predictor of crime is neither poverty nor race but growing up fatherless.” Fortune Magazine – Fatherless Families & Crime
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1992/08/10/76732/index.htm

Fatherless children, at least according to our Commander and Chief, is a far worse problem than the total amount of child support owed, yet the government does nothing about the 40% of mothers denying fathers’ access to the children.
http://Child_Support_Quiz.dads-house.org

One final point to address in this, if he can be jailed for a debt, why not do that to everyone who has unpaid debts? Imagine how that would help the national debt. We could start jailing all the politicians.
Themonitor72

What if I’m an atheist?

http://www.happyhomebakery.com mochazina

religion aside, one can logically see the degradation of the familial structure in our society. and one can also logically see how the lack of personal accountability, sexual prudence, and the pervasiveness of the acceptance of premarital and extramarital promiscuity contribute to that degradation.

Real kool

LAdies remember…. ugly dudes = ugly babies!!!!
Sidetrackedtimetraveler

Feelings? Who cares? People need to get REAL. These are REAL lives, REAL children with REAL needs. This dude is little better than the stray dog that impregnates every female in the area who isn’t spayed.
http://www.happyhomebakery.com mochazina

Feelings shmeelings!! Why are we worried about hurting a few of their feelings, when they were OBVIOUSLY not concerned with their CHILDREN’S feelings?!?!?! Let’s deal with the issue for real and stop trying to pussyfoot over all these feelings, because if we don’t folk will never get the full truth! They’ll get about the 2% that’s left after we cut out everything that *hurts someone’s feelings*!! UGH!Truth: If you lay down humping bareback, you might produce a child.Truth: If your only attraction to this person you’re laying down humping bareback with is physical, you are putting your potential child at a SEVERE disadvantage before they’re even conceived.Truth: If you produce a child from laying down humping bareback, your child NEEDS you in their lives DAILY.Truth: If you can’t handle the thought of a child needing you daily, DON’T LAY DOWN HUMPING BAREBACK.Truth: If you know all of these things to be true, yet disregard them because it feels good, YOU ARE SELFISH and should DEFINITELY not be laying down humping bareback, because you are not fit to be a parent yet. Grow up some more before you lay down to hump bareback.
Tash

Blah! Blah! Blah! Any man that has 23 children and no means of taking care of them is obviously a blasted fool!!!! What I find interesting about this no wedding, no womb campaign is that people actually believe this will change something. I love how everyone always passes judgment about the state of the black community. How many of you volunteer in the community? How many of you get from behind your computer screens and actually mentor people or go volunteer at a community organization that helps these people you are so quick to judge.

I know plenty of organizations that could desperately use a hand, but have to shut down programs and discontinue services because people are quick to talk and slow to act. I’m a social worker and it is hard as hell to recruit volunteers or funding these days.

When you come on these websites, all you are doing is preaching to the converted
http://www.happyhomebakery.com mochazina

I feel ya, Tash, but contributions to community organizations aren’t the only way to reach out.