Big Pimpin’ (Steve McNair)

BY: - 6 Jul '09 | On the Web

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by Harriet
“I know that you’se a pimp and wanna pimp hard; but in your pimpin‘ you can never pimp God.” ~ Canton Jones
I had a lot of respect for the athletic prowess of Steve McNair. The man was a trailblazer, a leader on the field, and his passion for his craft was incomparable. I’m saying this to outline the fact that he was great at what he did. But his untimely and unfortunate homicide  on the 4th of July  speaks to a dichotomy within this man that must be addressed.
In this article, I am neither vilifying nor disrespecting his memory. I’m simply discussing how tomorrow is not promised to ANY of us. I doubt Mr. McNair knew that his final breath would be taken on the 4th of July, 2009. I wonder if he would have done things differently had he known. Would he have appreciated his wife more? Would he have told his four children that he loved them from the bottom of his heart? It is speculated that the condo he was shot to death in was one shared with his girlfriend. I truly hope that is not the case, but if it is, Mr. McNair was definitely engaged in what I like to call “Big Pimpin‘.”
As searing hot bullets were assaulting multiple parts of his body, with one shot piercing his head with tragic finality, would he want his death to be remembered by the allegation that he died in the condo of his alleged girlfriend? His GIRLFRIEND, not his wife! That speculation alone brought tears to my eyes more than anything else.
We all take chances. All of us, at some point in our lives, have tried to pimp the system. Personally, I have tried to maintain my integrity, but growing up, I was prone to bouts of lying and stealing. If someone asked me, “Did you breathe today?” I would suck in a big breath and tell them, “Naw…I didn’t breathe today.” I used to take my dad’s slot machine quarters he stored in big apple cider bottles. What’s a quarter here and a quarter there? I’ll never get caught (whatever).
Let’s not even talk about my sexual “escapades” when I was in college that could have made me diseased or worse. I knew better than to treat my body with such contempt, but I was like a Spike Lee project…I had to have it.

I thank God that my “big pimpin‘” didn’t garner the results I deserved. I could have been killed by a careless driver while crossing the street with my freshly stolen quarters to get to the candy truck in my neighborhood. I could have contracted the HIV virus in college.   What would have been my legacy? “Here lies a thief and a liar with no self control…” I thank God that He gave me grace to see another day, to see deliverance from lying, stealing, and irresponsible sex.   I get to experience marriage and motherhood in a way that only He could have orchestrated.
I grieve for the family of Steve McNair. His wife, children, parents…the man was only THIRTY SIX YEARS OLD! If the news reports are true (you can’t always believe what you read these days), I grieve for the fact that he didn’t get the chance to realize his big pimpin‘ was not only painful to all involved, but DEADLY.
What are your past (or present) experiences with “big pimpin‘?” How did you stop (or will you stop)? How have you experienced the grace of God (if you don’t believe in Him, how have you experienced second chances)  in your life after knowingly doing wrong?

God bless!

~ Harriet

About the author

Lamar Tyler wrote 2229 articles on this blog.

Lamar Tyler is co-creator BlackandMarriedWithKids.com. He also is the co-producer of the films Happily Ever After: A Positive Image of Black Marriage, You Saved Me, Men Ain't Boys and Still Standing.

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98 WordPress comments on “Big Pimpin’ (Steve McNair)

  1. Lamar w/ blackandmarriedwthkids.com

    “McNairs actions didnt cause his death.” -Wow

    This is a direct case of cause and effect and if that’s not evident I don’t know what is. Now I liked the guy like a lot of you and was a fan since he graduated from college but let’s keep it real. If he was at home with his wife and kids would he be dead? And this woman was not someone he met at the supermarket that followed him home and stalked him. He had a relationship with this young woman, took her on vacation, co-owned a car with her (even though she paid money on the note his name was still on it) and saw her enough that they neighbors thought he lived there.

    If he wasn’t a football star would this conversation be the same?

    In closing it’s sad, and I often think of those boys growing up with no father and what’s even more tragic is they will know why.

  2. LaKeyshaF

    I also Agree with Lamar.

    If it was a random guy who was seen about town with a woman who wasnt his wife, vacationed with said woman who wasnt his wife, constantly at the home of said woman, and got a car in his name for said woman who was not his wife this would be a no-brainer. The man was cheating!

    I totally get you Harriet. We all do things that are wrong and we need to reflect on and turn aways from those things because you never know what consequences will occur. This unfortunate murder-suicide stemmed from the sin of adultery. The Bible says you reap what you sow, the world says karma is a *****! And as mentioned before…this situation would not have occured if he had been home with his family.

    And just for clarification. The Bible mentions judging a lot. But it never said to not call right right and wrong wrong. It says not to judge, meaning condemn someone to their final destination or beyond any help or redemption because of their actions. God sits in the judgement seat, he decides when you’re at the end of your rope. That doesnt mean that a Christian cannot say that adultery is wrong. As a matter of fact we have a duty to stand up for righteousness. The requirement for this stand is that we make sure that the log is out of our own eye before we point out the speck in someone else’s.(MAtthew 7) I.E. dont be hypocritical and castigate someone for adultery when you are also guilty of it.

    I am a big fan of football and I did enjoy McNair. But as with anyone we should learn from their mistakes lest we fall.

    My prayers and condolances go out to the family. It must be extremely painful to lose a spouse but to have to deal with the betrayal and public knowledge of that betrayal must provoke very conflicting feelings of sorrow, anger and guilt.

    Lets all let this make us better people.

  3. Curvydva

    This discussion is beginning to disintegrate into something so far from Harriet’s original point. I can not believe we are essentially lambasting this man because he had an affair. Even though stepping outside the sanctity of marriage is WRONG no matter which way you look at it, worldly or spiritually, we all make mistakes and bad choices. Our only saving grace is that it’s not shown for the world to see and blog/comment on. Please remember that this is someone’s life we are talking about. I think we get way too comfortable with the anonymity of the internet and the fish bowl of celebrities lives that we don’t think twice about what we say or how we say it. What if his children or his family read some of these comments. How do you think they would feel? I think we need to show a little more compassion and understanding for all parties involved.

    We don’t know what their relationship looked like so to say he should have been at home with his wife and kids is unfair. Say he should have been alone. Say he should have been with a friend. Say he shouldn’t have been with her. Say he should have been with his pastor. Say ANYTHING that doesn’t oversimplify someone else’s relationship that you know NOTHING about. Yes he cheated, yes the infidelity CONTRIBUTED to his ultimate demise but nothing is ever that black and white. If they had an open relationship, would we feel differently?

    And to say “you reap what you sow” in this case is inaccurate. If you sow adultery, you reap adultery, not loosing your life. Times like this I’m so glad nobody on this Earth is God. With my track record, I wouldn’t stand a chance.

  4. Patrick

    Beautiful this was and is a great article, you spoke the truth without compromising words and you spoke from your heart. Your words were Holy Ghost inspired and I congratulate you for doing that. Alot of people are upset you spoke truth, but they will get over it. Yes he messing around with this 20 year old did cause his death. He created a soul tie with this young girl and she couldn’t handle it.

    @LilKunta

    Get your head out of the clouds, pimping is the best word for it, whether seperated or not. Marriage wasn’t created for you to try out to see if you want this wife/husband or not, it is a convenant ordained by God. So yes it’s still pimping to be seperated and be with another woman. Yes there are some issues where seperation and divorce are in need. Now if a woman is getting her head bashed to the white meat, then yea divorce, run, skip, or jump up out of the marriage. Or if there is verbal and mental abuse get out. With that said if you get out of a marriage and you are seperated and you already having sex with someone else, you pimping.
    Now you told my wife to put her bible down and pick up a law book, well that AINT going to happen the law was founded off the bible so even you with your law book in your hand have a bible. But basically you were asking her to become street witcha, thats me not her. So here we go me and you both know he was a pimp and had he not got shot to death and it came out he was just cheating and had two girls on the side you would congratulate him as being a pimp. You even know it was wrong in your heart what he did, be because you proably his number one fan, you’ ll let it slide just to uphold his rep on the feild. Then you say “judge not” man please mcnair showed the world the verdict “Guilty” of being a pimp and having a tragic end. Man we need black men to rep right and the way we do that is have character on and off the field. Now 4 boys, no daddy, cause they daddy wanted to be a pimp. It is what it is. So stop idolizing the man and be honest with yourself and see that his ACTIONS cause his death. Think about it if I smack you, you going to smack me back. My actions cause that. So he slept with her, got her emotions in it, she was unstable in her emotions, bang PIMP dead. So my wife spoke truth as she always do, stop hating cause she said what you ain’t man enough to public say.Freedom of speech, don’t judge me, I still have love for ya.
    @Lamar
    Thanks for posting my wife article

  5. kirsten

    Wow again!! First to LakeshaF I just want to clear up something you said about Matthew 7:3. It makes references to two different things KJV uses mote in your eye when I have a beam in mine. Showing that though it is all in the same family (sin) they are different types. Which is why NONE of us are in a position to judge! Like I said earlier none of us have stopped sinning. Both Lamar and Curvy have made good points but I got to go got a date can’t be late. Respond more later. Keep it all love luv yall

  6. Lamar

    Everytime we have an opinion on something is it really judging. I think that’s kind of thrown around loosely every time someone doesn’t agree with you. Saw a lot of that in the post we had saying we didn’t believe in open marriage- then everyone came out of the woodworks saying we shouldn’t judge them. Well guess what, I don’t believe in it and I think it’s wrong.

    Back to the point…From what we do know they say the man was married and wasn’t getting a divorce. I don’t believe a married man should be in that situation. That’s my belief.

    Also how everyone is so quick to condemn the girl don’t forget she was just that A GIRL. She just turned 20 so when they met she was 19. Now any 36 y/o man I know can turn a 19/20 y/o’s head out by just taking her to Forever 21 for a T Shirt or Cheesecake Factory. Imagine if the guy they were dating was a multi-millionaire celebrity who she thought would be her husband some day that co-signed a slick ride and took you on trips in just a few short months? Now I’m not saying she was justified in anyway but basically she was immature in her thinking as most 19/20 year olds are plus there was something else going on there perhaps from a mental standpoint. If we’re going to look at it lets look at it but don’t absolve him from the situation or any wrongdoing because he laced up his cleats on Sunday afternoon.

    As stated before would the conversation be the same if he was a regular dude?

    Lamars last blog post..Happily Ever After Documentary Release Date and DC Screening Info

  7. Harriet

    @ Patrick,

    Yet another reason why I love you, baby! I really appreciate you encouraging me to be who God created me to be in the gifts He gave me.

    I’m glad this wasn’t a discussion in public, though. I don’t want you proving that “smacking” point. I know you ain’t all the way there on that “turn the other cheek” stuff. LOL!

    *Smooches!!!* I love you, baby!

    Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable

  8. Harriet

    @ Danielle,

    You said, “He could have ended up dead if she was just his babysitter, housekeeper, or personal assistant.”

    From a spiritual standpoint, I disagree. Mr. McNair didn’t approach her to hire her as a babysitter, housekeeper or PA. He approached her with an indecent proposal.

    If I had been 20 years old, without a foundation in the Bible and in church, broke and struggling, I probably would have taken the bait of his dollar signs and status as well. No lie. And if her emotions were already unstable, that becomes a recipe for disaster as all the world can clearly see.

    @ LaKeysha,

    Thank you, sis, for differentiating between what the average person sees as “judging” vs. what it actually is. The same Bible I hold dear is clear on us understanding the difference between holy and unholy, clean and unclean, righteous and unrighteous. Jesus said Himself that we would know others not by their status or fortune, but by their fruit. It’s incumbent upon EVERYONE to make observations about their own lives as well as the lives of others based on the fruit thereof. Not based on their outward circumstances, but the conditions of their hearts and our own.

    @ Curvy,

    You said, “What if his children or his family read some of these comments. How do you think they would feel? I think we need to show a little more compassion and understanding for all parties involved.”

    EXCELLENT point! I was just talking to my co-worker about how Mrs. McNair must feel. The woman found out her husband was dead. Then she found out he was cheating on her, and a natural knee jerk reaction would be to WISH he was dead. But then BAM, the reality hits her again that he actually IS dead. Jesus, have mercy! The pain she is having to endure right now is beyond my ability to comprehend.

    @ Lamar,

    Thank you for pointing that out. It seems like every time someone rocks the boat with an assertion that’s opposite what society thinks, they’re being judgmental. Since we’re on laws, thank God for the First Amendment right to free speech!

    ****

    Bottom line: this is an unfortunate incident, and we ALL could stand to learn something from it.

    Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable

  9. Curvydva

    Lamar, until all of this happened I had no idea who Steve McNair was. I couldn’t tell you what team he played for, what school he went to, and I’m not even sure I know what position he played (quarterback maybe?). So to answer your question, yes, if he was a regular dude, my commentary would still be the same; can’t speak for anyone else. It is not my intention nor desire to in any way absolve him of wrongdoing, celebrity or not. He most certainly got himself into a horrible position and paid for it dearly. But I feel sorry for him. Maybe more sorry for him than anyone else in this situation for the exact same reason Harriet wrote this post in the first place. He never got a chance to fix it. He never got a chance to see the error of his ways. He never got a chance to either work on his marriage or get out of it. It was simply too late. I just think that point has gotten lost in all of this. I’ve yet to read one answer to Harriet’s original question about how we’ve knowingly done wrong, made it out to see another day and then taken another course. Instead we play the blame game. Trying to figure out who’s more at fault for his death. I’m just saying, Christians, Non-Christians doesn’t matter; we should ALL show more compassionate for everyone involved.

  10. Harriet

    *raising my hand* @ curvy

    I’ve made mention of my original question many times in my commentary as well as in the article.

    But you’re right. The tragedy is that he never got the chance to fix it while we are still enjoying oxygen and being given another dosage of grace and mercy to get it right.

    For example, the disagreement between lilkunta and I was unnecessary, given the fact that we were coming from two totally different frames of reference. I apologized for that fact, but it seems the damage was already done.

    Bottom line (again) is that this is an unfortunate incident, and we ALL could stand to learn something from it.

    Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable

  11. Harriet

    “I’m hoping that people can look beyond the circumstances surrounding his death. What people fail to realize is that when you make a transition away from the game — emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually — you go through something. You change, and you’re constantly searching for something,”

    Eddie George, McNair’s ex teammate said this today on cnn.com. Any thoughts?

    Harriets last blog post..Right vs. Acceptable

  12. @patrick from lilkunta

    @ patrick : Your wife titled this post a pop culture term then tried to get religious. That sh*t aint working on me.
    You & her keep drinking that koolaid. Prolly flavour “red”.

  13. Lamar w/ blackandmarriedwthkids.com

    @curvyiva- point taken. I actually wasn’t going to comment on this one but it bothers me when we don’t relate the choices we make to consequences that follow and I’ve been seeing some of that all around the web since news of this broke. People think the two aren’t related and this happens not with just this situation but with choices we make everyday.

    Secondly this is a conversation I’ve frequently had with men and women about cheating or opening up your marriage to other folks for years. As men we think we are in control of every situation but you can’t be in control because you never know what that third person will do or is capable of especially when feelings get involved. I see men

    And I can believe that you didn’t know McNair but a lot of people did and I won’t believe that in this situation this many women in particular would have seemed to have chosen sides in the matter. I’ve heard much more compassion for Steve and anger at his girlfriend than I’ve heard concern about what his wife and sons are dealing with. That’s what really bothers me. I’ve been thinking about those boys everyday. It’s crazy enough out here for young black men, they definitely don’t need to bare this cross for the rest of their lives.

  14. Essie

    I feel bad for his wife, but I highly doubt this was his first affair and that she was not aware of his girls on the side.
    Many top athletes, actors, musicians etc who once they make it big, get offered free pussy (or dick) and most spouses just ignore it.
    Surely Sahel was unstable but I guess easy impressable. Why would she actually believe this married man would leave his wife for her? Guess he told her that line to keep her by his side.
    It’s unfortunate how this whole ting played out, hopefully those who like to cheat now think twice before doing so.

  15. Danielle

    Ok, I know we’re pretty much done with this topic, but I wanted to share comments from a discussion I had earlier today. Pretty much my friend, 37 yo African American male, was angry that people were not more outraged about the young woman’s actions. Basically he said if the roles had been reversed and a man murdered his mistress for cheating, their would be more outrage, more disgust/ridicule towards the man, saying he would be hung by the media, which we’re not seeing in this case. He even mentioned O.J., saying media coverage is not balanced when it comes to men and women, especially when comparable crimes are covered

    Danielles last blog post..Baby, Im old

  16. Harriet

    @ Danielle,

    I think to some extent that’s a cop out on the part of your friend. Am I saying that what Ms. Kazemi did was right? Not at all. But who was the more mature one in this situation? Mr. McNair.

    Yeah, she was a little on the insane side, and had she lived, I’m sure she would have suffered quite a bit from many sides. If she had lived after murdering McNair:

    – The entire world would have come against her, from his wife to his children to the police to the media. She’s not around to deal with that at all.

    – She probably would have had to go into protective custody…Mr. McNair’s boys are NFL players, for God’s sake! They probably would have been ready to kill her themselves!

    – No matter how angry his wife was that Ms. Kazemi was the “other woman,” if she had lived, you can believe Mrs. McNair would have been in her grill at every court date to ensure the full measure of the law was taken against her.

    In some senses I agree with your friend, but hypothetically if Ms. Kazemi had lived, I believe she would have been held accountable in EVERYONE’S eyes ONLY because McNair was a rich and famous athlete. But in any other case we hear about in the news about XY or Z, I think your friend’s assessment is correct.

    Finally, a double standard that doesn’t go well in a man’s favor. LOL (that was really just a joke…I’m not a feminist. wouldn’t want lilkunta to come and get me again ROFL).

    Harriets last blog post..The Seed

  17. Mrs. S

    @Harriet

    Thank you for bringing us this article and I’ve enjoyed reading the various viewpoints in this discussion. I will say that in some ways I did agree with lilkunta in the sense that if you are legally separated, technically, if it is understood between both parties, you can go your own way. Just because I think it may be wrong, doesn’t make it a “euphemism for adultery” especially if two consenting adults are okay with agreement. Also, I don’t agree with the disrespectful way that lilkunta came at you, but her point about using religion as a debate point, but titling a post “Big Pimpin’ “, does in my opinion, seem a bit contradictory to me as well. Also, Harriet, I completely loved your point of view until I saw this:

    “LOL (that was really just a joke…Im not a feminist. wouldnt want lilkunta to come and get me again ROFL).”

    If I’m wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing. Again, please correct me if I’m wrong. Based upon the voice of your article, I’d say you were a feminist. Being a feminist doesn’t have to be tantamount to being called a B****. It can, and is, a very positive term. Sorry, I’ll get off of my soapbox now, it’s just that that last line of your reply rubbed me the wrong way. Again, thank you for your article.

  18. Harriet

    Thanks for the comment, Mrs. S.!

    There was a lot of depth to what you were saying, and I’m going to try to address each point you made within this comment.

    You said, “if you are legally separated, technically, if it is understood between both parties, you can go your own way. Just because I think it may be wrong, doesnt make it a “euphemism for adultery” especially if two consenting adults are okay with agreement.”

    Once again, the point of view I’m coming from is strictly a biblical one. God HATES divorce. There are certain instances in the Bible and in modern day where it is necessary (children in jeopardy, abuse, adultery just to name a few), but overall, the institution of marriage was the FIRST one God created, even before He created the church. So although I’m glad there are laws in place to allow two consenting adults to do what they want to do, I still don’t agree with it from a BIBLICAL worldview.

    You also said, “Also, I dont agree with the disrespectful way that lilkunta came at you, but her point about using religion as a debate point, but titling a post “Big Pimpin “, does in my opinion, seem a bit contradictory to me as well.”

    I quoted a song from a gospel music artist, and then wove that quote into my article. I realize there is a song called “Big Pimpin'” out there in the mainstream as well, but the quote was not from that song. I hope you don’t mind my answering your comment with a question of my own: is there a problem with a Christian being relevant to modern society? Just because I’m saved, that doesn’t mean my head is buried in the sand.

    First, I have not always carried myself in a holy manner, so I can relate to the term “Big Pimpin'” on that aspect. Additionally, how would I reach others within the world by using strictly Christian terms? Would you have preferred me to entitle the article, “Thou Adulterer!” Would you have continued to read if I had quoted Job 24:15 (“The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”) from the King James Version? As a Christian, I have to remain relevant in order to even attempt to reach others with the voice God has given me, whether I’m at work and carrying myself professionally, or on the street doing evangelism. I can’t knock on someone’s door and walk in their home praying in tongues! LOL How is that going to open any kind of dialog?

    To be continued…

    Harriets last blog post..Look Up!

  19. Harriet

    Finally, you said, “If Im wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.”

    I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DON’T agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I don’t agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.

    Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that.

    I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a man’s testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).

    Once again, all my viewpoints are based upon my biblical worldview. I’m certainly not trying to be in the business of rubbing folks the wrong way (you can get arrested for that in some places! LOL), but a lot of what I discuss about movements or issues in the world today are pointed towards the negative imbalance that can be found within the movement.

    To be continued…

    Harriets last blog post..Look Up!

  20. Harriet

    As far as lilkunta is concerned, the root of that “discussion” was based on the fact that we were on two different wavelengths. I can’t discuss apples if you’re talking about oranges. It was totally unnecessary on both of our parts.

    But to be honest, it became a running joke in my home between my husband and I (over glasses of sweet iced tea). We often wondered how we would have responded had we not been saved. We probably would have shown our tails! LOL

    Once again, thanks for the comment, Mrs. S.!

  21. Mrs. S

    Thank you Harriet for your very detailed response. I’m going to try and answer all your questions and clarify a few things in the process.

    nce again, the point of view Im coming from is strictly a biblical one. God HATES divorce. There are certain instances in the Bible and in modern day where it is necessary (children in jeopardy, abuse, adultery just to name a few), but overall, the institution of marriage was the FIRST one God created, even before He created the church. So although Im glad there are laws in place to allow two consenting adults to do what they want to do, I still dont agree with it from a BIBLICAL worldview.

    I am a christian woman as well, with her own crazy, convuluted past so I can see, from a biblical standpoint why you have your outlook. In my opinion, however, God doesn’t want us to be miserable and abused as well. I don’t think that a person should stay in a marriage if they are constantly being mistreated and disrespected either, or if they have tried every avenue that they could and nothing worked. Sometimes people need to go their own ways. Now, I have a question for you, you say that from your standpoint, which is strictly a biblical one, that you do not believe in Divorce, because God hates divorce. When it comes to situations such as an abusive marriage, do you believe that the two couples should stay together then? It’s just that I see a flaw in not necessarily your thinking, but looking at marriage from a specific biblical standpoint. It seems too extreme, especially because marriages are often complex and grey, not necessarily black and white. I’m curious to see what you think of this.

    I quoted a song from a gospel music artist, and then wove that quote into my article. I realize there is a song called “Big Pimpin” out there in the mainstream as well, but the quote was not from that song. I hope you dont mind my answering your comment with a question of my own: is there a problem with a Christian being relevant to modern society? Just because Im saved, that doesnt mean my head is buried in the sand.

    First, I have not always carried myself in a holy manner, so I can relate to the term “Big Pimpin” on that aspect. Additionally, how would I reach others within the world by using strictly Christian terms? Would you have preferred me to entitle the article, “Thou Adulterer!” Would you have continued to read if I had quoted Job 24:15 (”The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”) from the King James Version? As a Christian, I have to remain relevant in order to even attempt to reach others with the voice God has given me, whether Im at work and carrying myself professionally, or on the street doing evangelism. I cant knock on someones door and walk in their home praying in tongues! ”

    Even though I found your reply slightly on the defensive side, I completely understand. I actually thought of this as soon as I posted. As a Christian woman I often have to do the same things with others. Nowadays, mixing modern relevance subjects with texts such as the Old Testament is a must in communicating to others who are not familiar with Christian workings.

    inally, you said, “If Im wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.”

    I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DONT agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I dont agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.

    Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that.

    I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a mans testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”

    Okay finally getting to the last portion of your reply. Based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, and no disrespect intended, ignorant conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement is about cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship.

    Okay I found the links:
    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170
    (This is the main one, this is also where you can see a lot of the men’s commentary as well.)

    http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682

    I think I covered everything as thoroughly as possible. As always, I look forward to your response, b/c I love to look at things from a perspective outside of my own tunnel vision. Lol. If you have any other questions please feel free to email me directly: m.nic.stephens@gmail.com

  22. Mrs. S

    I just read through my response I realize it’s a bit hard to read, and it looks jumbled. Here is a more edited version:

    Thank you Harriet for your very detailed response. Im going to try and answer all your questions and clarify a few things in the process.

    “Once again, the point of view Im coming from is strictly a biblical one. God HATES divorce. There are certain instances in the Bible and in modern day where it is necessary (children in jeopardy, abuse, adultery just to name a few), but overall, the institution of marriage was the FIRST one God created, even before He created the church. So although Im glad there are laws in place to allow two consenting adults to do what they want to do, I still dont agree with it from a BIBLICAL worldview.”

    I am a christian woman as well, with her own crazy, convuluted past so I can see, from a biblical standpoint why you have your outlook. In my opinion, however, God doesnt want us to be miserable and abused as well. I dont think that a person should stay in a marriage if they are constantly being mistreated and disrespected either, or if they have tried every avenue that they could and nothing worked. Sometimes people need to go their own ways. Now, I have a question for you, you say that from your standpoint, which is strictly a biblical one, that you do not believe in Divorce, because God hates divorce. When it comes to situations such as an abusive marriage, do you believe that the two couples should stay together then? Its just that I see a flaw in not necessarily your thinking, but looking at marriage from a specific biblical standpoint. It seems too extreme, especially because marriages are often complex and grey, not necessarily black and white. Im curious to see what you think of this.

    I quoted a song from a gospel music artist, and then wove that quote into my article. I realize there is a song called “Big Pimpin” out there in the mainstream as well, but the quote was not from that song. I hope you dont mind my answering your comment with a question of my own: is there a problem with a Christian being relevant to modern society? Just because Im saved, that doesnt mean my head is buried in the sand.

    “First, I have not always carried myself in a holy manner, so I can relate to the term “Big Pimpin” on that aspect. Additionally, how would I reach others within the world by using strictly Christian terms? Would you have preferred me to entitle the article, “Thou Adulterer!” Would you have continued to read if I had quoted Job 24:15 (”The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”) from the King James Version? As a Christian, I have to remain relevant in order to even attempt to reach others with the voice God has given me, whether Im at work and carrying myself professionally, or on the street doing evangelism. I cant knock on someones door and walk in their home praying in tongues! ”

    Even though I found your reply slightly on the defensive side, I completely understand. I actually thought of this as soon as I posted. As a Christian woman I often have to do the same things with others. Nowadays, mixing modern relevance subjects with texts such as the Old Testament is a must in communicating to others who are not familiar with Christian workings.

    “I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DONT agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I dont agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy…..

    … There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that.”

    I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a mans testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”

    Okay I’m finally getting to the last portion of your above reply. Based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, and no disrespect intended, ignorant conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement is about cutting off a mans testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship.

    Okay I found the links:
    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170
    (This is the main one, this is also where you can see a lot of the mens commentary as well.)

    http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682

    I think I covered everything as thoroughly as possible. As always, I look forward to your response, b/c I love to look at things from a perspective outside of my own tunnel vision. Lol. If you have any other questions please feel free to email me directly: m.nic.stephens@gmail.com

  23. Mrs. S

    Also I made a grave grammatical error: The quote: ” The feminist movement is about cutting off a mans testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman.” should read instead as:

    “The feminist movement is not about figuratively cutting off a mans testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman.”

    Sorry for the error.

  24. Mrs. S

    Hi Harriet! I actually saved the comment, so I’ll break down my response in a few pieces:

    Thank you Harriet for your very detailed response. I’m going to try and answer all your questions and clarify a few things in the process.

    “Once again, the point of view Im coming from is strictly a biblical one. God HATES divorce. There are certain instances in the Bible and in modern day where it is necessary (children in jeopardy, abuse, adultery just to name a few), but overall, the institution of marriage was the FIRST one God created, even before He created the church. So although Im glad there are laws in place to allow two consenting adults to do what they want to do, I still dont agree with it from a BIBLICAL worldview.”

    I am a christian woman as well, with her own crazy, convoluted past. I can see, from a biblical standpoint why you have your outlook. In my opinion, however, God doesn’t want us to be miserable and abused as well. I don’t think that a person should stay in a marriage if they are constantly being mistreated and disrespected either, or if they have tried every avenue that they could and nothing worked. Sometimes people need to go their own ways. Now, I have a question for you, you say that from your standpoint, which is strictly a biblical one, that you do not believe in Divorce, because God hates divorce. You touched on this briefly in your last paragraph, and you did admit in modern days it’s good that consenting adults can do what they want. When it comes to situations such as an abusive marriage, do you believe that the two couples should stay together then? The reason why I ask this ad nauseam is that your are looking from a strictly religious standpoint. It’s just that I see a flaw in not necessarily your thinking, but looking at marriage from a specific biblical standpoint. It seems too extreme, especially because marriages are often complex and grey, not necessarily black and white. I’m curious to see what you think of this.

  25. Mrs. S

    I quoted a song from a gospel music artist, and then wove that quote into my article. I realize there is a song called “Big Pimpin” out there in the mainstream as well, but the quote was not from that song. I hope you dont mind my answering your comment with a question of my own: is there a problem with a Christian being relevant to modern society? Just because Im saved, that doesnt mean my head is buried in the sand. First, I have not always carried myself in a holy manner, so I can relate to the term “Big Pimpin” on that aspect. Additionally, how would I reach others within the world by using strictly Christian terms? Would you have preferred me to entitle the article, “Thou Adulterer!” Would you have continued to read if I had quoted Job 24:15 (”The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.”) from the King James Version? As a Christian, I have to remain relevant in order to even attempt to reach others with the voice God has given me, whether Im at work and carrying myself professionally, or on the street doing evangelism. I cant knock on someones door and walk in their home praying in tongues! ”

    Even though I found your reply slightly on the defensive side, I completely understand. I actually thought of this as soon as I posted. As a Christian woman I often have to do the same things with others. Nowadays, mixing modern relevance subjects with texts such as the Old Testament is a must in communicating to others who are not familiar with Christian workings.

  26. Mrs. S

    inally, you said, “If Im wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.” I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DONT agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I dont agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.

    Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that. I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a mans testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”

    Okay finally getting to the last portion of your reply. Based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, base conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement isn’t about cutting off a man’s testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship

    okay I found the links:
    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170#comments
    This is the original post, and where you can find the commentary from men as well.

    http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682

    I hope I answered all of your questions thoroughly, and as always I await your reply. I reading other about other perspectives because it allows me to step out of my own admitted tunnel vision.

  27. Mrs. S

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    inally, you said, “If Im wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.” I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DONT agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I dont agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.

    Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that. I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a mans testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”

    Okay finally getting to the last portion of your reply. Based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, base conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement isnt about cutting off a mans testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship.

  28. Mrs. S

    Here is one of your last quotes. This is one of the ones that got under my skin a little bit.

    “If Im wrong, let me know, but in some ways, it seems as though you are implying that being a feminist is a bad thing.” I am feminine, but not a feminist. I agree with equal pay for equal work. I agree with a woman being safe from foolishness like sexual harrassment and discrimination based on gender. What I DONT agree with in the feminist movement (radical feminism, that is) is the marginalization of men. I dont agree that in order to get my way as a woman, I have to make a man feel like a little boy.

    Every movement comes with an inherent responsibility towards BALANCE. There are many ways in which Fundamentalism in Christianity has done much more damage than good. It has caused many to approach situations like the one we see with Mr. McNair with contempt and condemnation rather than love and self-reflection. I have issues with that. I also have issues with a feminine movement that would–and please pardon my banter, but this is the best way I can think of to state it–require a woman to cut off a mans testicles and wear them around her neck as a prized trophy. I have issues with trying to make a man feel less than a man just so I can feel like more of a woman (hear me roar).”

  29. Mrs. S

    Okay, so based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, base conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement isnt about figuratively cutting off a mans testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship

    okay I found the links:
    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=102790323170#comments
    This is the original post, and where you can find the commentary from men as well.

    http://www.militarysos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339682

    I hope I answered all of your questions thoroughly, and as always I await your reply. I reading other about other perspectives because it allows me to step out of my own admitted tunnel vision.

  30. Mrs. S

    Okay, so based upon your assessment of the feminist movement I would strongly suggest you educate yourself about the background of the movement, and speak to other modern feminists, before coming to such extreme, base conclusions. I think you hit a good point in your first paragraph, you said that your issue is mainly with Radical Feminism, but then you made a generalization later about the feminist movement as a whole. The feminist movement isnt about figuratively cutting off a mans testicles just to make me feel like a stronger woman. Crazy enough, I recently wrote an small essay about the feminist woman, and emasculation of men, and I posted it on my facebook page, as well as on a military spouse blog that I belong to. I will gladly send you a link as soon I can find it. The note prompted a very a detailed and enlightening discussion between the sexes about modern relationships, and if the phrase “Letting a man, be a man” is antiquated or if it was relevant. I was surprised by a lot of the mens responses to the notion of emasculating a man in a relationship.

  31. Harriet

    OK, I’m glad I got the opportunity to read what your original commentary was, Mrs. S.

    Let me set the record straight…I LOVE discussions like this, and I’m all for learning from others, so in no way was there an air of me being defensive. I’m not a genius by any stretch of the imagination, and much of what I’ve learned has not only been in the classroom, but through discussions like what we are having. Being defensive is counterproductive.

    That said, my apologies for getting under your skin. That certainly is not my intention.

    In a nutshell, you asked if abuse was a sufficient enough reason to get divorced. I believe I touched on it briefly, but since I didn’t make it clear, I am in no way supportive of a woman remaining with a man (or vice versa) who puts her life or the lives of her children (or vice versa) in jeopardy. Furthermore, let’s be real…what GOD put together, let no man tear asunder, right? I can’t honestly say that every marriage out there was created in heaven. Some people get married on whims and flights of fancy that don’t last very long, because its foundation was built upon shaky ground.

    As far as our discourse on feminism is concerned, I think the radical feminism issue I spoke about should not have been a parenthetical statement. By the way, if you allow me to digress a moment, I really appreciate you calling me to task in brining my viewpoints much more clarity. After reading your responses, I can see where I could have stated things differently to make them more understandable. Your commentary has sharpened me in many ways. I appreciate you!

    To be continued…

    Harriets last blog post..Acorn to Oak Tree…I want to be a Legacy!

  32. Harriet

    My comment about being relevant was not spoken from a defensive standpoint. In fact, I was laughing as I typed it, because in my mind, I was wondering what the response would have been had I gone that route! LOL Hilarious!

    The extreme, base conclusions I made were solely generated from my viewpoint of RADICAL feminism, not modern feminism. Hopefully that clears up any confusion I may have caused. However, any movement that’s not christocentric could easily go to those kinds of ugly extremes, even movements that claim to be godly. That’s the point I was trying to make.

    I would love to read your article! I’m not a military spouse, but I served 8 years in the Air Force as an officer! There are many young ladies and gentlemen that I’ve met during my assignment with ROTC that need a good, balanced viewpoint to lean upon when they are having difficulties adjusting to being the spouse of a military member.

    Once again, thank you for the discussion! I learned quite a bit, and I appreciate you taking the time out to draw out the crux of these matters! Be blessed!

    Harriets last blog post..Acorn to Oak Tree…I want to be a Legacy!

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“The Retort” Has Arrived

BY: - 7 Jul '09 | On the Web

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by Lamar Tyler

I’m excited to be a part of a new website that plans to explore and examine the representation of blacks in the media. TheRetort will begin this process by taking a close look at CNN’s Black in America 2 which is set to air later this month.

I’ll be joining some of the best black bloggers on the web including: Danielle Belton of The Black Snob, Christopher Chambers of Nat Turner’s Revenge, Cheryl Contee of Jack & Jill Politics, Charles D. Ellison of The Ellison Report, Gina McCauley of Michelle Obama Watch and What About Our Daughters, Vernon Mitchell Jr. of Negro Intellectual, Baratunde Thurston of Jack & Jill Politics, Elon James White of This Week In Blackness, Poet, writer Bassey Ikpi and more.

Check out this excerpt from the intial press release:

Your mother always told you about talking back — mainly not to do it. To keep your mouth shut. To mind your manners. To keep your head down and be happy with the scraps life tosses at you. After all, talking back could get your hurt. Talking back could get you in trouble. And historically for black people, talking back could get you killed.

But times have changed. They’ve had their say. Now it’s time for a response.
Welcome to The Retort (www.blackretort.com), launching July 6th, it is the place for political discourse and plenty of “talking back” on black representation in the media. The site will kick off with CNN’s latest installment of Black In America. Last year the cable network premiered the controversial series to much fanfare and derision. Reported on and hosted by CNN correspondent Soledad O’Brien, many criticized the series for having a detached, anthropological approach to black culture. But was this critique warranted? Was it a true-to-form examination of black life, or was it a primer for the uninitiated? What was CNN’s motivation? How could they make it better? Or was it necessary at all?

About the author

Lamar Tyler wrote 2229 articles on this blog.

Lamar Tyler is co-creator BlackandMarriedWithKids.com. He also is the co-producer of the films Happily Ever After: A Positive Image of Black Marriage, You Saved Me, Men Ain't Boys and Still Standing.

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