by Harriet Hairston
“I don’t think infidelity is inevitable, but monogamy is definitely unnatural!” ~ BFP
I wrote an article a while back about whether or not monogamy was realistic, but even in all the commentary, questions about the validity of relationships–specifically marriages–still arise in my mind. Those questions mentally bombard me, especially after reading statements like the one above.
Are viewpoints that marginalize marriage as irrelevant in today’s society gaining steam?
Would all the residual effects of the breakdown of the nuclear family be resolved if we removed all boundaries from relationships?
The answer to those questions are “Yes,” and “No,” respectively. Nevertheless, what puzzles me is how intelligently others can argue their points against monogamy. For example, Mason Jamal, a contributing writer on Black Voices, stated the following in his article, “Open Marriages and Closed Minds:”
“After all, by and large, the average American is sexually repressed…We have a hard time warming up to ideas that stray from our conventional family values when it comes to sex and marriage…We’re quick to judge…We want everyone else and their relationships to confirm our values and to embrace monotony monogamy because we feel safe that way…We’re socialized to believe that to love someone is to never be with anyone else.”
Which leads me to even more questions:
What exactly constitutes sexual repression?
Is there something wrong with “conventional family values?”
Does embracing moral absolutes equate to being judgmental? If so, does that mean if I disagree with the assertions made above, I’m being “quick to judge?”
Does monogamy = monotony? Certainly not in my experience, where I’ve learned to make love to one person 10,000 ways instead of sexing 10,000 people one way…but hey…what do I know?
This is not an attack or diatribe against BFP or Mason Jamal. Both individuals are extremely intelligent (smarter than me, anyway LOL) and talented in their crafts. It just amazes me how much my mind and spirit refuse to budge on the unequivocal view that marriage is for one man and one woman, and the commitment therein is both mutual and monogamous.
Does that mean I have a closed mind? Quite the contrary. It just means that for me and mine, we choose to do sex, marriage and family the way the Lord prescribed.
Although I’m unwilling to agree with an open marriage (which seems like the greatest oxymoron known to man), to each his or her own. I just need more help understanding WHY marriage and monogamy are getting such raw deals these days.
Can anyone help me out?
God bless!
~ Harriet
My wife and I wrote a similar post on our blog (https://www.makingitlastforever.com). We have never felt sexually repressed in our relationship. When people seek the thrill of sex outside their committed relationship, they often are unfulfilled and guilt-ridden. I believe that monogamy is natural. However, being monogamous is difficult. Temptation is everywhere. Our culture is so full of sexual images and messages that it’s difficult to filter them out. Being in a monogamous relationship provides some protection from the barrage of temptation.
.-= Mocha Dad´s last blog ..Our First Pinewood Derby =-.
I agree that when people seek sex outside their relationship that they are unfulfilled. The guilt-ridden part is questionable. Why? Because I find it interesting that quite a number of women “choose” to use sex as bait when it comes to establishing a relationship let alone priming their prey for marriage. Are they guilt-ridden behind that? I think that in order for monogamy to become a “natural process”, both so called “loving” partners have to unerringly understand the importance of the physiological and psychological dependencies of being human and not use sex as something to wield selfishly. I believe that both people should want to have sex whenever the other wants to. Isn’t that one of the top 2 reasons why we get married with the intent to stay monogamous anyway? Imagine if that was to truly happen with all of us, regardless of the kids, the job, the house, our culture and all the other excuses that can be conveniently used.
I think there are many many more sex addicts in society today than people realize. Just because their “drug” of choice is not nessicerily illegal (unless its prostitution or pediphilia) as well as it being everywhere many people are in denial. Ever hear the quote sex sells? Who would ever say heroin sells or crack sells or irresponsible drinking sells, but the truth is they all do. I have come to realize recently that I married a sex addict and he is seeking help now that he realizes his compulsion. It hurts and is very sad but there is a mental problem that has to be fixed with therapy on both of our parts. Monogomy is natural and nessacary on many levels. those who disagree I think owe it to themselves to at least go to a sex addicts annonymous meeting (yes they exist!) And see if any of their behavior fall into those catagories and then be “open minded” enough to say maybe this could be a struggle and problem that I have. Talk to a psychologist about how porn and random sex destroy intimacy and making love. It has a lot to do with how the brain has been trained to be damaged. Pray for my family as we claim the victory over this.
Here is JUST a thought. If we can be socially conditioned to something (i.e., marriage relationship) then we can be socially conditioned away from something (i.e., open marriages, non-monogamy) I think both are social conditions because marriage is a social contract that is upheld by the culture of the people involved. That is why you have many different interpretations of how a marriage should be constructed. For some polygamy is the norm, for others its arranged marriages where the family decides, for others its about being sexually open but emotionally loyal, and the list could go on and on. I can say reading your article you did come across as judgmental and not just writing a commentary on someone else’s take on marriage. Why should someone else’s view pose a threat to what works for you and your family? and also vice versa… if the whole world turned polyamorous tomorrow your family’s choices shouldn’t pose a threat to what works for the rest of the world.
One last thing, not that I am an advocate for open marriages because I am not. I believe if you can’t commit to one person DON’T GET MARRIED! However, if monogamy WAS actually natural for human beings then don’t you think less people would have a problem with infidelity? Just a thought…
.-= Alcinia´s last blog ..A Bit Different These Days =-.
Back in my days,boys and girls,was not allow in the same room,except at school or church,them days was when parents was watching they girls…i’m alway bringing up the past,cause that is the beginning of our future, why? we’re alway fighting the rage of what if…of our past.that my belief,you must go back in time,to understand what is now…today world is so hungry,the more they get the more obesity,they will be….maybe i’m the only one believe this,having many sexual parnter,is a mind thing…it’s a challenge,to experience they inner motion,to get them to the peak of saying,who the man? today society is plentiful of sexual behavior,so we must have common sense to know,that everything that look good to you,isn’t good for you…
What makes any addict, an addict? How well do we all understand that this could be a “cause and effect” Universe? I often wonder how do we (United States) rate among sexual repression and marital dissatisfaction? I like the idea of being married, but often times I feel as though being married and monogamy should simply be looked upon as a state of mind. Otherwise, is poses the question that a lot of us have, both men and women, which is why IS the divorce rate so high is this country? Should we all choose to ignore or suppress our sexual urges because society dictates that we shouldn’t? or is it possible to understand we all inherently have these urges regardless of society and if we take a few deep breathes, wait ten minutes it will all subside and we’ll be human again?Just thoughts…
@ Alcinia
It was neither my intention nor desire to come across as judgmental. I just asked a lot of questions and provided my own opinion about my worldview and opinion on the matter. If that’s being judgmental, then I’m doomed to destruction. LOL
Seriously, though, you make some strong points about social conditioning. Eventually, people grow up and either challenge what they were taught or live within the constructs of that teaching.
For me, I just can’t make sense of doing love, marriage and relationships outside the original premises they were created for, but that doesn’t mean that those who choose to do differently are somehow beneath me (which, in my opinion, is what being judgmental is).
It just means I don’t understand it, and although I will not change my worldview, that doesn’t mean that I can’t discuss it objectively.
In a perfect world, man & woman would marry, have children and live happily ever after. I am married, 17 yrs, and i do not believe in fairy tales. that being said, i really hope that my marriage stays strong and true but i can not control what my husband will do (and i really dont want to know). have i ever been tempted YES, but never strayed! i do know that sex is a big part of a relationship and even in biblical times there were harems and concubines. I am not naive, and i really wonder if we females are delusional into thinking that men dont stray.
Wow @ Judas
First, congrats about being married 17 years! That’s awesome! But what’s wrong with believing in happily ever after? It takes WORK to create it, but once the foundation is set, it’s not smoke and mirrors.
I don’t think any married man or woman is immune from being tempted to commit adultery, ESPECIALLY in today’s volatile society.
As a young lady, I don’t think it’s delusional to have an expectation that our mate not stray, and I don’t think it’s wrong to hold a person accountable to that expectation.
Prostitution, harems and concubines are as old as time, but that doesn’t mean that because they exist that they are inherently acceptable. Some man somewhere is keeping them in business, but that doesn’t mean that man has to be my husband or yours.
I don’t think that’s being naive. I think it’s simply holding one another accountable.
@ Harriet- I understand you were just voicing your opinion on the subject and I can respect that but I think sometimes we can overlook the tone and themes of what we write and say and how they may come across. I don’t think you are condemning anyone but for example, you just wrote:
“I just cant make sense of doing love, marriage and relationships outside the original premises they were created for,”
That is to assume that the way you make sense of doing love, marriage, and relationships IS the original way. So in a sense that is judgmental not necessarily condemning but you are making a judgment that your way is the original way when you have really no way of proving that.
Now, this is not about going back and forth with you but I do think as a society all have to open to other ideas without making a claim of originality, correctness, or what’s wrong for the whole.
.-= Alcinia´s last blog ..A Bit Different These Days =-.
@ reel huzband
An addict is someone who cannot control their behavior and wastes time, money, and, energy to give into their addiction. Even though they know it will hurt their family and spend money that takes food out of the mouths of their children, they cannot control it. Every woman does not coltrol her husband or lover with sex. The sad fact is some people could have sex with their partner everyday and still seek out porn, chronic uncontrolled masturbation, phone sex, strip clubs, and other relationships. That is an addict, and when you lie to your partner when repeatedly questioned and make up stories to keep them in a fantasy world, that is wrong. Some people feel that keeping up appearances is more important than letting the truth out because they don’t want to face the consequences. IF you take vows that say you will forsake others then do so, otherwise write your own vows and be clear in what you want for your own marriage so that the other person doesent spend 5 yrs trying to fix problems in their marriage they know nothing about. On a personal note, I don’t fully understand what you mean by marital dissatisfaction. In my case I always tried to look for new opporitunities to show love and affection from seminars, to books on cd, to counseling and never had any idea of the depth of the problems in our relationship. Every man is not an addict, and I know that. But it doesent hurt to research it and make sure that you approach life and the opposite sex in a healthy way.
@ Alcinia
I agree with you. To a great extent, I wrote this article to try to gain more objectivity when it comes to my viewpoint. That’s extremely important for a writer to do. But I don’t want to look at my viewpoint as a handicap or crutch.
I guess this speaks to a great extent to the fact that I believe in moral absolutes instead of moral relativism.
Amen Harriet. It really is about the choice. Yes, we all get tempted and sometimes attracted to other people, but it’s about making a choice to either stay true to the promises you made or give in to your temptation. And if we can fight other temptations, why can’t we fight this one. Are the consequences not great enough? I also question why those who choose an open marriage get married in the first place. It’s also a choice to remain single.
@ reel huzband
An addict is someone who cannot control their behavior and wastes time, money, and, energy to give into their addiction. Even though they know it will hurt their family and spend money that takes food out of the mouths of their children, they cannot control it. Every woman does not coltrol her husband or lover with sex. The sad fact is some people could have sex with their partner everyday and still seek out porn, chronic uncontrolled masturbation, phone sex, strip clubs, and other relationships. That is an addict, and when you lie to your partner when repeatedly questioned and make up stories to keep them in a fantasy world, that is wrong. Some people feel that keeping up appearances is more important than letting the truth out because they don’t want to face the consequences. IF you take vows that say you will forsake others then do so, otherwise write your own vows and be clear in what you want for your own marriage so that the other person doesent spend 5 yrs trying to fix problems in their marriage they know nothing about. On a personal note, I don’t fully understand what you mean by marital dissatisfaction. In my case I always tried to look for new opporitunities to show love and affection from seminars, to books on cd, to counseling and never had any idea of the depth of the problems in our relationship. Every man is not an addict, and I know that. But it doesent hurt to research it and make sure that you approach life and the opposite sex in a healthy way.
I guess the bottom line is if you define monogamy as one partner for life then enter into marriage knowing that. If you want an open marriage then marry someone who feels the same. If you define monogamy as being with one partner but giving into the fetishes and trends of our age then let your partner know! Its about communication and finding your match. Don’t be someone who wants an open marriage and sees nothing wrong with it and marry someone who wants complete monogamy! Especially if you were not like that while dating! Monogamy is natural for those who value it. Open marriages are natural for those who value it. Be clear on your values and expectaions no matter how taboo they are because if they become a problem yrs down the line then you aren’t just hurting your spouse but your kids, relatives and friends you’ve made together over the years.
Sorry didn’t mean to post twice, was havin issues with the blackberry!
I speak about marital dissatisfaction when partners try to share their concern and the other doesn’t listen and/or hear them. You speak about how to look for new opportunities, (other than outside influences) or to show love and affection toward their partner, but what happens when it doesn’t hit home? For the record, I am not advocating that the other partner go on a search and destroy mission, but I agree with the idea of letting your partner know their shortcomings (as well as your own) at all cost! How many times have we heard whether jokingly or not that women (not to pick on women) will have sex with their “like interest” during the dating process to no end, until she marries him? After that, the sex (which is extremely important in a relationship) slowly, gradually begins to cease to exist? There seems to be an imbalance there and mislead if you asked me. There are so many mechanisms that goes into being monogamous and leading your partner into believing that this is how its going to be for life is a pretty bold, selfish way of getting and trying to keep your him satisfied. I have to agree with your bottom line of being monogamous, the sad part about it is that a lot of people just don’t put in enough “what ifs” into our conversations while dating or before they get married to get a clear picture to see how their relationship could potentially develop.
I don’t think the issue is monogamy being unnatural, I think the issue is simply SIN. Some people are more prone than others to sexual lust therefore monogamy would be an issue for them, just like some people are more prone than others to taking up drinking or acting out their anger with violence. Without Christ we all are prone to the particular sin we natually gravitate towards.. Just my thoughts
open marriage is just wrong,know if and but about that situation.you can’t make a wrong be right…
Yeah I feel you on that! I think sometimes individuals forget that knowing someone for 5 yrs doesent equate to actually being that person for their whole lifetime and we tend to project our fanciful ideas about love and marraige expecting them to be fulfulled. Someone needs to write a book about the what ifs to ask while dating. Coulda saved me some heartache!
When people make the statement “monogamy is unnatural”, I just feel like maybe it is maybe it isn’t but if you have opted in to being married then whether its unnatural or not doesn’t really matter.
If you really think about it, how many things that we do on a daily basis go along with what is “natural”? It isn’t natural to wake up and go to an office and work all day in front of a computer, but we do it because we want financial stability. It is natural to occasionally want to slap somebody upside the head when we get mad but most people don’t do that because its morally wrong and unproductive. I could go on and on but the bottom line is that we haven’t started advocating slapping people because that’s your natural reaction, or given up on jobs because we don’t feel like going to work, why is marriage any different?
Great discussion. For the most part I agree with Alcinia. Marriage is a personal thing, a contract made between two people (or maybe 3 if they are poly-smile). Those are the two people who determine what their marriage looks like. I have no problem with open marriages and non monogamy as long as both partners are on the same page and there is open and honest communication. Why do we assume that everyone shares the same views, same religious beliefs, same needs? What if 2 people enter into a marriage with the desire to have an open relationship in the first place but they want to share other things exclusively (like living space, children etc)? Who says that someone cannot love more than one person? If our “traditional” ways of looking at relationships and marriage are absolute and “right” then why are so many marriages ending (and ending early)?
I think to each his or her own. If it doesn’t work for you or you have a serious problem with it then of course do not engage.
Not all people in open relationships/marriages are sex addicts or out there sleeping with each and every person that turns their heads. And we can be found in all walks of life, we are straight, gay, bisexual, polyamorous, Christian, Muslim, non religious, Spiritual, we have children and we don’t.
At the end of the day it is all about LOVE. There are too many lonely and sad folks in this world to place restrictions on open and honest love. 🙂
@ Happily married woman for 12 years:
Well written…
some of you all commenting need to stop beating around the bush and “call a spade a spade”. @Aja, I totally agree, and def. think people need to think of the reason marriage was instituted in the first place…God. Just be real about it, open marriages just don’t cut it.
Mrs. Hairston
I am BFP…and thank you for quoting my tweet in your article, and I really enjoyed your piece, but I hope you understood the context in which I made the statement about ‘monogamy being unnatural.’
I am actually a very happily, and monogamous man, but I still recognize that not only in virtually every other aspect of nature, but also throughout the whole of human history, monogamy has been, and continues to be, the most problematic form of intimate interaction.
I contend that it is a contradiction to our fundamental human instincts to be solely attracted to or have feelings for one person for the vast majority of one’s adult life. Most of us do it, and lead very happy lives, but that does not mean that it’s optimal for our fullest expression of our beingness.
Our contemporary proclivity toward monogamy is primarily religious, thus culturally-based, and my view is more of a historical perspective unbound by any particular religious predispositions.
I think the hallmark of a healthy relationship is an authentic consideration of all the possibilities, and that’s my only point with that tweet…just attempting to ask us to not simply consider that there are other possibilities to consider besides monogamy.
If you don’t want the commitment don’t get married. And co-sign on what Aja was saying.
@ BFP
Thanks for adding in this commentary what we discussed earlier! Here’s a repeat of my take on what you said:
Again, my viewpoints reflect my worldview, which is biblical and Christocentric. In that vein, the fact that humanity is one of the only living species that practices monogamy further solidifies how God created the earth and all its inhabitants. He didn’t say it was REALLY good until He created human beings in His image and likeness, meaning we are set apart and predisposed to love and relationships like no other species.
I agree that monogamy has been “problematic” throughout human history, but not impossible, unrealistic or unnatural. Human instincts are animalistic, and left to themselves, without any boundaries, they are destined to create drama throughout the entire world. LOL But I guess the same could be said for religion as a whole, if we look at some of the terrible things that have been done throughout history in the name of Christ. SMH
The original premises of love, relationships and even Christianity had their foundations in simplicity and beauty…it is humanity that twisted, skewed and stretched these things beyond recognition.
I agree there are other possibilities…I just don’t think any others are greater than ONE man and ONE woman. That’s just me.
And in closing, a resounding CO-SIGN with Aja!
It is true that polygamy has been the historical trend and works in many cultures and situations, but that doesn’t mean monogamy doesn’t work. A lot of people have trouble with monogamy, but they also have trouble with telling the truth, not stealing, not being disrespectful, not killing, etc. Still, no one would suggest we abandon the pursuit of those things (truth, honesty, honoring life). There are a lot of wonderful things that our weaknesses lead us away from. That doesn’t mean there is something wrong with setting them as your standard and constantly working towards them. We’re all susceptible to lower, baser, things. Thats why those of us that believe in God gotta get our faith up, our prayers up. Great discussion!
.-= Nadirah´s last blog ..Are you raising a mini me? And is that a good thing? =-.
I think that American culture is infantile when it comes to sexuality and relating. If humans were naturally monogamous, there would not be a public, private or any other type of “cheating” scandal every five minutes. Because, for men (and enlightened women BTW) variety in relating is human, natural. I am not saying relate to 10,000 partners, I am saying adults can enjoy the joy, company and attraction that comes from being the presence of the opposite sex and just ENJOY it.
I have found that when many folks get married, there arrives this “legislation” spoken or unspoken that you should now, not be attracted to members of the opposite sex. This is silly and unrealistic at best, and completely juvenile and insecure at worst. If your man stops “looking” he will stop looking at you, because that level of repression shuts his entire masculine mechanism down. Same goes for women. But this is what often passes for sanity in even so called “good marriages” ….”I had better not enjoy a cool conversation with that attractive woman at the party…there will be hell to pay later.” Why are we so childish and insecure that the thought of our mate enjoying the presence of another, human being, who he is “wired” to be attracted to send us off the deep end?
It is this kind of silent legislation that eventually comes home to roost. Anytime you repress a fundamental human instinct, it becomes repressed, distorted and emerges in a profoundly twisted and amplified way (Catholic Church anyone?) Then you get folks fantasizing about messing around, just because there is so much unconscious pressure not to.
We have never taken a step back and examined closely the environment that has been designed for us, and whether it fits with human nature. Remember, marriage, at least in America, is a contract between you, your mate and the government. This has nothing to do with love. It has to do with property. Don’t believe me, try to get a divorce, you will come to find out what state sanctioned marriage is really about. A love contract between two adults should be internal, private, and should not require legislation.
Men are naturally wired to crave variety. Now why would a sane society design an institution that is so counter aligned to natural human nature? Why would the priests and the politicians get together and insert the mechanism of guilt into the most profound and sacred of the human gifts? God gave us the act of sex to get everything, I mean everything born here on planet earth. The sexual urge is one of the most compelling and profound urges on the planet. Its human folly and the need to control people that leads to institutions, that we never question, there fore we never grow up.
We all grow up thinking when you marry that, that is the only person you should be with. There are times you feel your marriage is ho hum and you look for something else. Or you think, is this it, and you look for something else. I never thought I would step outside my marriage, but I did. Why, because I found he did. It was like tit for tat, and now I hate myself for it. We’re working on repairing our marriage. I do love this man. 14 years is a lot of years to just give up.
Amen to Harriet! At the end of the day, people will ALWAYS make excuses or come up with intellectual rationales as to do what will please the flesh. I have a question, if God is the creator of marriage, then why is is not “normal” to follow His plans and guidelines with how a marriage should be? What gives us the right to say oh, I’ll get married (which God is the creator) but then I’ll define my marriage the way I see fit? I already know that non-believers will have their own rationale as to why that is, but those who know and believe in God will understand where I am coming from. To those who will say I am coming off judgemental b/c of my tone, etc, I am not. This is just how I feel and how I think. By the way, marriage is between a man and a woman. It is not unnatural to be monogomous, are there tempations, yes. But at the end of the day, it is a choice, just that simple. Just as one make a choice about what shoes or outfit they want to wear that day, the same for a person who make the choice to cheat or remain faithful. It is not that complicated. Be responsible and accountable for your actions and choices.
I don’t think that monogamy in unnatural. For me, it is the most stabilizing factor for the other things that form a blanced life. Our marriage of 43 years is the perspective that I can look back on to confirm my conclusion.
We are all influenced by cultural factors that shape our conduct and values. Many of the respondents to this question express some form of religious belief. For those of us who are Christians, our belifs are grounded in a covenant relationship with our God. That covenant begins with “I am the Lord your God … You shall have no other gods before me.” It also includes “Do not commit adultery.” See Exodus 20:1-17.
We have the capacity to accept and abide by such a covenant. Or, we can make all kinds of excuses for not keeping the covenant commitment we make to our wives and husbands. Debates about whether it is natural or unnatural deny our intellectual capacity for shaping our families, communities, and society in which we live. If we are unable to make and keep covenant relationships with our souces, the family structure crumbles. Without strong families, our communites crumble. Without strong communities, we might as well be modern day Sodom and Gomorrahs.
Monogamy, like the covenant relationship we make with our God, is a decision that we must determine to kepp. To blame our infidelity on what we percieve to be “natural or unnatural” reduces us to our basic animal instincts, and corrupts the notion that we are made in the image of God.
If God calls us to a covenant relationship, the monogomy is natural.
This is an awesome discussion, one which should be addressed. In the Bible, God asked the question ” who have bewitched you? ” The devil will always show you something that you don’t have, and plant the seed that you should have it,when you KNOW you shouldn’t.
Satan hates marriage because God created it. I watched my dad abuse my mother for years verbally and physically. cheated on her every chance that he could, then accused her of doing it. I vowed to my mom that whenever I got married that, I would never trat my wife that way. I was married to my first wife for 14yrs. before I lost her to breast cancer and never once strayed. I’m now married to a lovely young ladt that I know God sent me to fulfill the rest of my days, and vowed to do the same with her.
Open marriage is just another lie that Satan have started and society have ran with it. I’ve heard it said thta if you repeat a lie long enough some will believe it to be be true. C’mon people, God teaches us to shead the very appearance of evil. Fight for your marriage, work for it and “DON’T BELIEVE THE LIE”
Profound recording about the masculine and feminine polarities https://www.nityama.com
First off, I am 19 years old… not old enough to be talking about the marriage, monogamy, and all tha great stuff. From my short life lived, I have come to the conclusion that it is not meant for human beings to be commited to monogamy. I mean think about it, what other breathing creature on this planet nestles with its adjacent sex and stays with it for all eternity? . . . dont worry i’ll wait. what makes humans so different? SOCIETY AND ALL THE DISTRACTIONS OF THIS WORLD! WE HAVE BLINDED OURSELVES OF OUR OWN NATURAL BEING!!!! AND ARE FORCING OURSELVES TO BELIEVE IN A STRUCTURE THAT WAS INVENTED BY MANKIND BECAUSE THATS WHAT BECAME BEFORE US…. THEN THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HIDE BEHIND THE LORD….. I PERSONALLY THINK THATS A ‘SAFE GROUND” THAT PEOPLE RN TO WHEN THEY ARE CORNERED WITH FACTS……. AND PROOFS… BUT MY POINT OF WRITING THIS IS BECAUSE EVERYONE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT SEX…. MONOGAMY IS NOT JUST ABOUT SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGAIN I COULD GO ON BUT I WONT CUZ I GOTTA GO BACK TO WORK… IT JUST BOTHERS ME THAT PEOPLE MISTAKE NON MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS TO BE ALL ABOUT SEX……. THATS WHERE THE CLOSED MINDEDNESS BEGINS!
@ Dawn
First, good morning! I hope you’ll be able to read this comment once you get a break at work or once you get off.
I appreciate your passionate response. What I can’t get down with is comparing human kind with animals…are you saying that because other animals are NOT monogamous (for the most part…elephants, geese, swans, dolphins and eagles are, but that’s about it) that humanity cannot be? If that’s what you’re saying, I would have to disagree with it.
I agree that monogamy is not just about sexuality, but to reduce sex to something casual and cavalier, in my opinion, is where closed mindedness begins. Like anything else, it requires responsibility, balance and wisdom.
Regarding your commentary about people running behind the Lord and God as a failsafe once presented with facts and proof…hey, it is what it is. I STAY behind the Lord and God because without Him, my life would be disastrous, and I couldn’t face it from day to day. The real proof that others overlook is the fact that taken out of its original context, sex, love and intimacy have been the bane of our existence. Just look at the skyrocketing STD rates and divorce rates for proof and facts about that.
Truly, I disagree with your assertions, but I don’t disrespect them. You’re entitled to your opinion, and I hope that my response to it has opened up the doors to continue to discuss these issues further.
Be blessed!
I’ll respond later…. thanx for writing back I enjoy open discussion. Im deployed so I have nothing better to do than blog and work. TTYL!
Dawn, you are light years older than your age. “What if” religion or Jesus wasn’t into play? No, seriously, for the moment, let’s play a blog game and take religion out of the equation. Now let’s discuss. I would probably guarantee that some people would be very hard pressed to insert it at some point in time throughout this blog. And yes you can take it out, and see how our (blog) society reacts to it. But I do agree with what she has mentioned most importantly to me, “Monogamy is not just about sex”. I feel as though I have matured as a human beings to know that we all need each other as a couple and other friends for certain inspirations, whether moral or spiritual (I do believe that there is a difference between spirituality and religion) in some way or another. Gotta run!
@ Dawn,
Well, in the meantime, be safe! I look forward to hearing back from you!
@ Reel Huzband,
I don’t think I’ve ever responded to any of your comments in this particular forum. Truthfully, I’ve never been quite sure of what you’re saying. I’m an intelligent person, but there are times when I just don’t get it…and this is one of them. LOL It would seem that you’re on the fence about this issue, caught up in the gray area of whether something is good or bad. IDK. But either way, thanks for adding fuel to this discussion! Your questions and viewpoint are valuable!
@ Harriet,
How do or can we as human beings justify the divorce rate in this country and abroad? Bad choices? Lack of information about the other person? Not asking enough of the right questions? Is there any logic here?
@reel huzband
I have been casually following the development of this discussion, and something that emerges is this struggle between our “natural instincts” and what was posed as “unnatural” at the beginning. The bottom line is that this is an “intellectual discussion” that can only take place among humans. The effect of our intellect, or as those of us who are Christians believe — that part of our being that is made in the image of God — is that we are capable of entering into covenant relationships. I mentioned this in my first comment. Therefore, this discussion IS ABOUT RELIGION.
It is our religious belief in “one God”, “one covenant”, “one husband and wife” that sets the standard for our families, communities, nations. There may be other religious, or spiritual beliefs that don’t embrace monogamy, but it has nothing to do with what is natural or unnatural — in my opinion.
Here is the clincher: we can make up rules as we go, or we can embrace some standard. It is clear that all of us will not agree with a single standard, so what does that mean? Left to our animal instincts (which requires that we turn off our brains), we would be led by our hormones to constant conflict and territorial disputes involving our relationships.
The very nature of “civilized beings” is that we form relationships for our mutual benefit — order, peace, safety, prosperity, support in times of need. These are complex because of our human complexity — our being made in the image of God. It is our decision to submit to monogamy in this matter between a man and a woman that gives us the capacity to achieve the extension of peace in other relationships — family, church, community, nation.
If the commitment to monogamy is God ordained, then it must be natural.
@ HARRIET
Im glad I came across this blog, I didn’t know people can be insensitive enough to discuss the taboo. Anyhow, I wasn’t really thorough about what I was saying so I will breifly explain. I am not necessarily classifying ‘Us” as animals, I’m saying that the only thing that makes us different from animals in this aspect is the structure and organization we have built for ourselvses to feel secure in our relationships, in our soicety, and in life. . . Monogamy is not necessarily natural in a sense but it has become a “way of life”. It is another rule to add to the list of being a Christian, being faithful, being a good spouse and whatever else being monogamous falls under. In America especially, monogamy is the foundation of a lot of things. Its like removing the roots from a tree: the tree will die if you do so. Same thing with monogamy…. Marriages will die in the culture of monogamy because that is what is taught of them and expected of them. Furthermore, I can say that based on watching people and being in relationships myself has led me to believe that monogamy is unnatural. (If you would have asked me years ago, my perspective would have been different) And some may say that this is an excuse to go out and be with several different people. Ive also heard people say that monogamy fails because of temptation. Which in fact is true! Alot of the times temptation is a factor in failing relationships…. but look at the relationships that are not failing…. temptation has inched itself in that door also. Temptation just may be another way of saying “hey, I can love more than one person.” I have spoken to a lot of younger men (Americans) about the topic and I always hear the same story of how they would rather carry on with numerous relationships.
At first, I winced about the honesty but the truth of the matter is that its not necessarily childish (as I once thought). Its reality! Monogamy is not what we are when we look past the distractions of this life. Honestly, i believe that human beings today are so far from having natural instincts its embarassing! Basic things such as reproducing, loving, letting life happen as it does. we have put our naturality to the side and restricted ourselves to the tiny SOCIETY in such a large WORLD.
@ Dawn (glad to see you, girl! Stay encouraged over there!)
I agree with what Roger said about there having to be some sort of standard regarding relationships. If you choose to make society your standard, may I suggest that you never, EVER get married? LOL Seriously, United States culture kind of dictates a “hokey pokey” attitude towards marriage…getting in, going out, shaking it all about in divorce court, then getting in again with someone else. If I were to make that my standard, then sure, I would have to agree with you.
If I were to go with the standard of the different societies throughout the world, then my butt would be in jail…they have what they call “transgenerational relationships” in certain remote areas of the world, where it’s OK for a grown man to purchase a young boy (as young as age 5) and engage in sexual relations with that boy. Umm…yeah, that’s not the culture I want to pattern my relationships after.
They have yet another culture that allows for polygamy, where women are treated like objects, and children are treated like slaves. Nope, that little microcosm of world culture ain’t for me, either.
So my question for you, Dawn, is which world culture will you choose to pattern your relationships after? It’s a cold, cruel, hard world out there, and the anthropological cultures out there are not very friendly to either women, children or men (or, in some cases, all of the above, with infanticide being a normal way of life some places of the world).
So the TRUE reality is that YOU have to choose! If you decide to make your own rules up, then my question becomes, “What makes you an authority on this?” If it’s your experience, you said yourself that you haven’t had very much. If it’s your personality, what happens when you meet someone who is emotionally compatible, but incompatible in other areas? Irreconcilable differences? Ex to the next?
All I’m presenting is the assertion (and opinion) that neither culture nor society (nor some knuckleheaded brother on the street thinking with his smaller head than the one that was designed for decisions like this) should be the standard we use to create our marital relationships. They are ALL fallible. There is one standard that is not, and if followed to develop relationships (not follow countless rules and act all religious) it cannot fail. It is WE, as human beings who fail, then make up all kinds of excuses (i.e. temptation, “natural instincts,” etc.) as to why the original model didn’t work for us individually.
All due respect, that’s some BULL.
I hope that didn’t come across as too brutal…I’m not attacking you as a person at all. It’s just that when I attempt to make sense of what you’re saying, I’m unable to. LOL
I fully understand what your saying…. The question at hand though is: Is monogamy unnatural? I think that it is and I’m sorry for coming off the wrong way by incompleting my position. But my thoughts of this is that monogamy is unnatural but I dont necessarily CONDONE it. Sure I would like to be in a monogamous relationship and that is what Ii am accustomed too (because I’m very selfish and wouldnt want to share) But my point was that Monogamy is unnatural no matter how many reasons WHY its around…. disregarding the fact that other types of relationships are disregarded by the “first world country.” Disregarding how women and children get treated….(and honestly I can see where your coming from with the treatment of women and children, but remember America was once a brutal place… overtime it changed. with that so did the customs and habits of people) the point is Monogamy is unnatural… My experiences are not so great as compared to the people in this blog, but I do have several to account for. Not to mention its amazing how much you can learn by watching other peoples reactions in their relationships.
at harriet
I fully understand what your saying…. The question at hand though is: Is monogamy unnatural? I think that it is and Im sorry for coming off the wrong way by incompleting my position. But my thoughts of this is that monogamy is unnatural but I dont necessarily CONDONE it. Sure I would like to be in a monogamous relationship and that is what Ii am accustomed too (because Im very selfish and wouldnt want to share) But my point was that Monogamy is unnatural no matter how many reasons WHY its around…. disregarding the fact that other types of relationships are disregarded by the “first world country.†Disregarding how women and children get treated….(and honestly I can see where your coming from with the treatment of women and children, but remember America was once a brutal place… overtime it changed. with that so did the customs and habits of people) the point is Monogamy is unnatural… My experiences are not so great as compared to the people in this blog, but I do have several to account for. Not to mention its amazing how much you can learn by watching other peoples reactions in their relationships.
@ Dawn (again, good to see you, girl! )
Yes, “Is monogamy unnatural?” is the question at hand, but I don’t think it can be answered without having this kind of discussion.
Whether monogamy is natural or unnatural has nothing to do with experience, Dawn. I don’t think it’s unnatural…I just think individuals lack the discipline, self-respect and integrity to carry it out. So they make this “monogamy is unnatural” excuse to justify their lack. It gives people a fail safe when relationships start getting difficult…an escape route, if you will.
Now, look…I’m glad to be a citizen of the United States. I don’t think any other country forwards me the same kinds of opportunities as this country does. But the brutality of this country has not changed over time…perhaps the method and operation of it has, but it is still very much alive.
Either way, I don’t think the root of monogamy has grown out of selfishness, but stability. And if stability is unnatural, then so be it. I guess I’m just peculiar like that. LOL
I appreciate the various perspectives offered. As happens in many cases, when the conversations gets extended, we lose sight of the context to the discussion. The answers that I offered, and I believe the context inwhich the question was asked — is marriage. I think we are asking if the “monogamy” is natural in marriage. This is a forum about marriage relationships.
I don’t think we are talking about “monogamous shacking up,” or “monogamous dating or hanging out with no commitment.” When we think about the question in the context of building and sustaining a family (family values, customs, beliefs, practices, love, caring, and respect for one another), I think the values of a monogamous covenant relationship are natural to the preservation of order, peace, and sustaining the types of relationships that are the foundation of societies.
For those of us who have raised families, or grew up in stable, loving families, nothing could be more natural than monogamy to the unity needed to successfully prepare a child for adulthood and a healthy relationship with a husband or wife. For those who haven’t enjoyed the “natural environment of a monogamous family,” perhaps it is understandable that there may not be confidence in a trusting, faithful relationship between a husband and wife. Fidelity, and a commitment to monogamy is a key strength of strong family relationships.
If not monogamy, then what? For me, this isn’t a debatable issue. Where are the positive benefits of polygamy — in marriage or any other relationship between a man and woman?
Roger Madison
Imagine a world without insurance, would you like to live there.In
allwalks of life we need checks and balances. I’ve learned over my
50 yrs. of being on this earth.” You can never complain about any-
thing that you will tolerate.” In the early part of your dating and
or marriage one must set standards that we are going to live by.
If you’ve worked anywhere in Corparate America they have what you
call (SOP) standard operating procedures. In the military, they have whats called a chane of command (protacol)Manogamy to me is
like voting gives you a voice, not voting you should shut the hell
up. I want to here from people that will just do what’s right first
I can learn from your WISDOM, not the one’s that want to makeup their on rules as it applies to them. Ask the people the the Nations capitol (DC) that are effected with AIDS the #1 city with
the most effected induviduals, if they would have it to do over
again would they have made better choices! PEACE……….
@ Mr. Madison
I do agree with you on the Marriage and Monogamy part. That again is also a cultural thing to go by not necessarily the “natural instinct” side of it. I do agree that marriage is an organized way of being together because it provides stability, brings about values, and further more is less barbaric [to us] than other practices.
I do agree with you on the Marriage and Monogamy part. That again is also a cultural thing to go by not necessarily the “natural instinct†side of it. I do agree that marriage is an organized way of being together because it provides stability, brings about values, and further more is less barbaric [to us] than other practices.
{i keep forgetting to add my name… sorry!}