A few weeks ago I was interviewed on British radio about the “independent woman” debate within the black community. It’s not just in the United States where black women are professing their independence and self-sufficiency, but it’s in black communities around the world. Near the end of the interview, I made a statement that I believe sums up the “independent woman” issue, and hopefully, silences some of the nonsense.
What I said was this:
Don’t get married if you are worried about following a man’s lead.
Also. . .
Don’t get married if you always have to be right in an argument.
In other words, marriage is for grown folk. Mature people. Reasonable, sensible, giving, and compromising adults. It’s not for people who live in the fantasy world of a song, movie, or any other psuedo-reality. The bottom line is this: if you are still holding on to a played-out cultural stereotype of the independent woman who dare not submit to a man or defer to his opinion, then that’s all you will be holding onto in bed at night.
Marriage, as I shared during the interview, is about balance, agreement, and compromise. It’s not about one person getting his/her way all of the time. When a family, a home, finances, and emotional stability are involved, there is very little time for petty arguments about “who wears the pants.” As long as everybody has clothes on their backs, food in their mouths, and love in their hearts. . . who cares?
So, save yourself some heartache and frustration, and don’t get married if. . .
You have to be in control.
You are protective over your stuff or your money.
You don’t want someone else telling you what to do.
You are always talking about how you “got this” by yourself.
You are waiting on him to mess up.
You plan to keep wearing your independent badge of honor after you’ve taken off your wedding dress.
Marriage is a beautiful, sacred institution that works well when two people decide to show up like grown ups –grown ups who put away childish behaviors and allow the challenges and triumphs of the union to make them better friends, lovers, partners, and spouses who depend, first on God, and second on each other.
BMWK, complete this statement: Don’t get married if. . .
That Guy says
Amen!! The Independent Woman was THE top challenge I faced when dating. There were many strong independent women who had their financial and professional lives together and express a desire to get married but I encountered very few who were really willing to go “all in” in a marriage. All in meaning everything is “we”, “us” & “our”. Strangely, they ususally expected me to do so. A marriage is not a fantasy but it can thrive if both parties are fully invested and engaged spiritually, physically, emotionally and financially.
DrMichelle says
Great comment! I’m not against women being successful (I’m successful) but if a woman wants to get married she has to realize it’s not about what she is giving up; it’s about what she is gaining.
Bride2Be says
I love love love this article. Yesterday in marriage counseling my Pastor went over this very topic.
Crystal Jones says
Women need to realize that there is power in submission! Submission is about trusting God, not about being “under your husband’s thumb!” We need to realize that we we submit we put the onus on our husbands to follow God’s word and be the spiritual lead in our household. This does not mean we don’t have a say or even the final say. It means we are trusting God to guide our husbands in order to do what’s best for our families. We tend to forget that our husbands are to submit and love us like Christ did the church! Remember y’all…Christ died for His church. So why is it so hard to submit ourselves unto someone who is willing to lay down his life…for us!! (Excuse me..I’m about to shout up in here!)
No one is taking your accomplishments away from you. I’m sure of your husband didn’t want to marry someone successful he wouldn’t have asked you, lol! There’s no room for independence in a marriage (yours OR his.)
Rhonda J. Smith says
I love this, Crystal. Submission is the truth and has been so freeing for me! When I received the book Liberated through Submission by PB Wilson, I saw the title as an oxymoron, but after reading it I was truly liberated to trust God and submit to Him, knowing He would handle my husband. I know your comments will free somebody today!
DrMichelle says
PREACH!!! Yes, there is power in all that God creates. Thanks Crystal.
Deborah says
Now that’s what I’m talking about……it is a beautiful thing to submit!! It first is obedience to God and then to whom we entrusted to follow God!! Amen, such good word by Crystal!!!
Anonymous says
Very well put! I felt that shout too!
Josiah says
Amen! Than.ks C. Jones
Anonymous says
It become interdependence depending on God and each other, Who knows better than God on defining marriage? After all he ordained marriage. We do it his way all will work for your good.
Rhonda J. Smith says
Don’t get married if you can’t honor your husband. There is no room for Jezebel in marriage. You can’t usurp your husband’s authority and then further dishonor him by giving him commands (1 Kings 21:1-15).
Don’t get married if you can’t wrap your mind around oneness (Genesis 2:24). In a marriage there should be synergy manifested in working together in things like a shared vision, shared finances, shared bills, shared dreams, and overall mutual support.
Thanks, Dr. Michelle, for keeping the dangers of the independent woman on our minds so we are always examining ourselves to see if we are working against our marriages. Keep ministering the truth!
DrMichelle says
Hey Sis. Godly submission is one of the ways I believe God provides rest to his daughters.
Love you lady.
Shellie says
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DrMichelle says
Yes, Ronnie and Lamar have done an outstanding job with the blog.
Mrs. Jones says
I think this article needs to go both ways for, ” men and women”. Marriage is a balance between two individuals who come to one common ground on daily issues. But if I know my husband lacks in an area such as finances or common sense. I’m not following him or being submissive to him. I would be a complete fool to follow my husband down a path that I know will hurt the stability of my household. That’s why God gives you free will to choose!!!! Case in point, my husband makes decision on a whelm and every time it blows up in his face and he looks like a complete fool after everything is said and done. I tried to be polite and tell him maybe you should sleep a couple of nights on your decision and then decide. Nope!! Not him, he tells me I’m the man and I know what’s best. Then weeks later when all hell breaks loose, he’s pissed, mad and blaming me for his bad decision because he’s so embarrassed that he looks like a complete fool. But I don’t say a word, because I’ve learned to do things low key, when I know he’s doing something stupid, I make sure it doesn’t affect me or my children. A mother’s got to do what a mother’s got to do. And the stability of my children is my top concern, because he doesn’t have common sense to think about anybody but himself when he makes these foolish choices.
DrMichelle says
Hi Mrs. Jones,
You are correct. This can go both ways, but since the topic was about independent women I focused on the woman. Of course, we must use common sense in all things. I wish you the best.
Renee says
Mrs. Jones,
You are right on point! I cant stand a man, husband, or anyone to act like everything is cool until it falls apart and want to lash out on the person who didnt agree with their actions in the first place…. Then try and twist the situation to make the look crazy… Submission goes both ways… Period!
THESCOTTGARRETTSHOW says
It’s obivious to me from reading your post that your husband married the wrong women. Sitting back and waiting for your spouse to make a mistake so you can point out how stupid he is doesn’t sound supportive. From the way you speak some or all of your kids don’t belong to him that’s why you use the my kids not our kids in your rant. Maybe if he wasn’t with you he could grow enough as a man to make good decisions, starting with letting you and “YOUR KIDS” fend for themself and finding one of these beautiful single women without kids
Chrisyjai says
But why did you marry a man that you see as lacking common sense…Not trying to be funny. That’s a real question!
Princess N says
Mrs Jones,
I also get a sense that you don’t think much of your husband, that’s why you would say such things about him, I bet if you went before God and started praying for him, started asking the Father to increase your husbands wisdom to help him become a great leader of your home instead of going behind his back to remedy the situation, I believe your husband will gain a heart of wisdom to lead you and your kids to your desired future. this is a union and oneness is powerful according to God’s design but if you are determined to tear him down, well then, its no wonder he is acting like this. not judging you, but I just think you need to change your game plan if your relationship is to be fulfilling to both of you.
Nat says
Princess N – I agree with you in response to Mrs. Jones’ post.
Mrs. Jones, while it is clear you’ve endured many a disappointment as a result of decisions your husband has made, one of the key points made in the article is not to tear your spouse down. We all have different beliefs or even interpretations of milestones and as such marriage, but in my opinion a marriage partner is a LIFE partner. Someone you walk step-for-step with. As such when HE has made a bad decision in essence YOU have also exercised a poor choice that implicates your children’s suffering. Part of being an exemplary life partner, husband or wife is seeing a DIFFERENT perspective for those same options and learning how to influence your spouse to have enough confidence in your judgement to consider the alternative that may also have a positive outcome. Hey, how about even having enough faith in your husband and offering enough support to that spouse to say honestly, “Honey I’m not sure about the direction you’re going with this, but I’ve got your back either way.” and sincerley meaning it?
While you encourage readers to scoff and discredit your husband as you’re encouraging them, your post really leaves your judgemrnt more at question than his. I do wish you happiness and successes with your entire family in the future.
Anonymous says
I agree with the article and when I meet someone that makes responsible,mature choices in life thats when ill get married. .I just broke off a 2 year engagement..*together for 3 years) due to my fiance consistently making poor financial and social choices..bottom line he never learned from his mistakes.I realized his poor choices made him a liability not an asset and making a long term decision to marry him would be a mistake. .ppl dont change unless they want to..they hv to see that they hv a problem first in order for any growth to occur..and some just dont “get it” because they dont want to.I wish you luck..
Joede says
Wow, you called your husband a fool and stupid. In public.
I hope he sees the immature child he married and I hope you grow up before you lose him.
Lynette says
This is a great article. I married my best friend. I could talk to him about anything. We’ve been married for – well it will be 38 years in July of this year. I make a bit more money than he does, but there has never been a time in our relationship that there was a yours and mine attitude. When there are issues to be discussed about household purchases, I leave the bulk of those decisions to him and the choices regarding furniture is mutually discussed. When my daughters were growing up, if they came to me for permission, it was always, go ask your father, or did you discuss this with your father. He is the head of the household, and respected as the head. I didn’t marry him for money or status. I married him because he when I looked into my future, I couldn’t see anyone else except him.
DrMichelle says
Wow. 38 years Lynette. What a blessing. Thanks for sharing. Your comment is very encouraging.
stephanieb says
Wow Lynette, your comment is definitely encouraging and your marriage is a blueprint for how marriage should be. I hope and pray that I can have a marriage like that one day.
Mia says
Submission isn’t just for women…..its for all of us……sometimes a woman is not submissive because a man won’t line himself up with wisedom. Independent women became independent by lining themselves up with wisdom. If the man has the wisdom in the matter then follow him. But when the woman has the wisdom in a matter there seems to also be a problem with men feeling “challenged”……there is a fine line…..a balance indeed when it comes to independence and submission. personally, I don’t necessarily submit to a man, I submit to wisdom. No independent woman wants to submit to a man who has proven himself to be foolish and then she too suffers for his foolishness. this is actually a two way street in THIS day and age…….
stephanieb says
Amen Mia, I too feel like submission is only applied towards women, but the husband MUST submit to God and his Word first and love his wife as Christ loves the church, and that’s the problem, a large portion of men simply aren’t doing this. So many men have bailed on their responsibilities as husbands, fathers, and not to mention, as Christians, of which, many of them don’t even want to go to church. If you aren’t studying God’s Word then how can you follow it or live by, or LEAD by it, you simply CAN’T, which is the problem. I agree that many single women need to work on being more submissive once they get married, but men NEED to take more responsibility, and I get tired of all the work being put on the woman and basically nothing on the man. One thing I have realized is, if the man wasn’t very responsible when you were dating, that probably won’t change much once you get married. I have known men who were nice, great personality, Christian, etc., but were not responsible when it came to taking care of a household, paying bills, holding down a job on a regular, taking care of kids, etc. I was once to talking to a brother who “seemed” like the perfect guy but was almost 40 years old and still living with his parents, has never taken care of a household, and expects the wife to cook, clean, wash clothes, and he can do whatever he wants. I’m thinking, no wonder you are “such a great catch” and still single at almost 40 years old. There are far too many momma’s boys around who expect a wife to be their 2nd momma and take care of them while they can play video games all day, watch ESPN, and complain about how they can’t find a job, while we, as black woman, make lemonade out of lemons, and with the help of the Lord, try to do the best we can. It’s time that some of these brothers who want to be submitted to, do the same!!
stephanieb says
I love this quote “I don’t necessarily submit to a man, I submit to wisdom.” My thoughts exactly. Reminds me of the saying “common sense ain’t that common,” well in my experience, wisdom isn’t too common either unfortunately 🙂
Cocoaqueen says
Where is the discussion on men being submission worthy? Every time I come to this site, it is flooded with topcis about what women need to do to accommodate their husbands. What about a thoughtful discussion about men preparing themselves for servant leadership and to be followed???? So very disappointed.
stephanieb says
I agree Cocoaqueen, you took the words right out of my mouth. I will mention though that Troy, Jackie, and many other men on this website have great discussions on men’s role in this, but they unfortuately don’t get a lot of good feedback from the men in terms of commenting. I find that very few men want to evaluate their role in this, it’s always what the woman ain’t doing, especially us black women.
RonnieBMWK says
Most of our writers (as well as readers) are women…and we ask them to write from their own perspective as wives and mothers. We do have male writers and when they do write…they write from the male’s perspective…and are always looking to bring on good male writers.
Jeanette says
@ Ronnie, yes most of your writers are women who write IMBALANCED articles such as this one. Fortunately, there are women readers on here who don’t listen to this awful “advice.” If they did I’m sure they would be miserable in their marriages.
ShonD says
I agree completely . Don’t relationships involve two people?
DNLee says
All of this applies to men too. (I have never understood the follow a man’s lead thing.) Marriage is all of those things. I get that the article was in the context of Independent Women, but I see “Confirmed Bachelors” as the other side of the coin. These independent men have said as much about sharing, compromising and waiting on some one to mess up.
Mrs. Jones says
@TheScottGarrettShow – When you’re married, you make decisions “together” because you must look at all fasces, especially when you have children, and how this decision, not only affects you but the children also. When we first got married he showed no signs of this, but people put on many faces when they’re chasing you and wooing you to be their wife. Also, I’m not waiting on him to make a mistake, but once you’ve been married a couple of years, you learn people’s habits. Therefore, when I see this foolishness begin to happen, I stay clear of the land mines, to keep my sanity for the well being of our children. Really, all this began after our children were born, he couldn’t handle the pressure of extra bills, raising children, while I had no problem adapting to our new roles as parents, he couldn’t – I had no problem buying less for myself and more for my children, that’s just what parents do when you have children, you sacrifice your happiness, materials things and you put things on whole to make sure your children come first and they are taken care of. Also, his insecurities really started to come out when I begin to advance in my field of work, he became jealous of the money I made, he became even more jealous when I begin working on my graduate degree, “while working full time and raising our children, volunteering, joining boards and advisory committees, plus speaking engagements “. So therefore, he tries to make complex decisions to compete with me because he’s not happy with himself, and then he doesn’t follow through to make sure it falls in place or take the necessary steps to complete something he started. And yes to answer your question, they are “our” children sweetie; I wasn’t raised to be a babymother!! But, because I’m the primary parent who pretty much does everything for them, I consider them “my children”.
stephanieb says
I understand how you feel Mrs. Jones. It sounds to me like your husband is struggling with self-sacrifice. When you get married, you have to bend a little (actually a lot) and learn to sacrifice, but when you have kids, the sacrificing has to increase because you have others to think about. I sometimes think that it’s a little easier for women to do this than men because it’s somehow expected of us as the mothers to sacrifice our bodies, our time, energy, money etc. when we have kids, and (some) men act like they get off scotch free.
Renee says
Say it Mrs. Jones!!!!! I can tell your a classy and strong lady. Men with all of those excuses to me seem weak , and yes those are the ones to go out and search for what they think is a better single beautiful lady. How about looking at self @TheScottGarrettShow before trying to counsel and suggest “he married the wrong women”. Grow enough as a man???? seek self first please.
Mrs. Renee~
Mrs. Jones says
@Chrissyjai – People put on many faces when they’re chasing you and wooing you to be their wife.
CeeZet says
Not sure where to start Mrs Jones, I can almost hear your point, however, since u hurting and angry, you’re not potraying yourself very well.
1. People put many faces when they’re chasing what they want. (both woman & men).
2. In most cases, people dont take enough time to get to know people, hence they mistake the next person. Some people are good judges of character, and some aren’t, and those who aren’t good judges of chracter, must take longer to get to know people.
3. If you believe your Man is a cheat, ask yourself if u really took your time to get to know this guy.
4. If u believe your Man changed in the marriage, ask yourself what was your role in pushing him to cheat.
[N:B] A marriage involves 2 people, if something goes wrong, i believe, both have played a part in that wrong. How can u claim you part of a team, but when it fails, u blame the defence. When a team looses, everybody involved, looses.
Life generally has to have a balance. LOVE is there because theres HATE, HAPPINESS is there because theres SADNESS, TRUST is there because theres BETRAYAL, and HONESTY is there beacuse theres DISHONEST. Life consists of a balance, Life is a cycle. There one wouldn’t exist without the other, If you’re an ordinary human being you must go throught the life cycle, regardless if u have a partner or not. Its a pity society does not potray the true meaning of life, we believe bad things must happen to bad people or poor etc. BAD is for all, Black, White, Poor or Rich. So when the bad hit u, dont think the world loves u any less, you’re just living LIFE,,,,BAD is part of life unfortunately….
Charm G says
The term “independent woman” has a very negative connotation in this article. The issue lies in women trying to be men in the relationship. Both parties must be able to compromise and play their positions. I feel a woman’s independence will draw a real man. Real men have no desire for a puppet. The points made in the article do not describe an independent woman, but rather a selfish girl.
Men…Don’t get married if. . . you’re threatened by a woman’s independence.
Josiah says
Thanks for that observation. ‘Independence’ can mask selfishness or insecurity!
Sharon Williams says
I am so excited to know that a woman shares my view. I have the same type of husband, we’ve been together for 16 years and married for 8, and I feel like I can do better financially and emotionally without him. He sucks as a man. If I submitted to him, it would be more like I was another child. He is not motivated enough for me to follow or submit too, so I feel you on this one. So sick of all these books, magazines, blogs, friends, and family telling us Black woman to continue to submit to men that don’t have a clue. And for those woman submitting and waiting on your man to lead you please let me know how that’s working out for you, because the women I know that do that, are being beat, cheated on, and treated like nothing. “Submit” the famous man made word to keep woman under control
Joede says
How did you not see the man he was after being together for 8 years and then getting married? No one puts up a front that long.
How is it working for you, being with soneone who “sucks as a man”? The women I know who have leaders as husbands are doing very well.
Why not pray for your husband and marriage?
Mrs. Jones says
@CocoaQueen – I completely agree with you. I love that fact that this site supports the unity and continually of black marriage, but every time I pull the site up, these ” writers” are always saying how you need to take care of your husband – how my husband cheated on me and it was all my fault – how to look over your husband selfishness and sacrifice your happiness for his well being- how all the single women want our husbands – how to put your husband before you kids. Like really, if we as women are doing this, what are the husbands doing!! For awhile, I was wondering whether I had entered the “Land of the Stepford Wives circa 1975”. Until today, when I got positive feedback from my earlier post on Wednesday.
Ronnie Tyler says
That could not be further from the truth…don’t know how often you pull up the site but we certainly don’t run articles blaming women for their men cheating on them. As you stated, we do support unity and healthy black marriages and have thousands of articles to show for it.
Tyrone says
Ronnie, thanks for setting the record straight. A lot of times individuals talk and express themselves from their own personal pain, disappointments and setbacks. They see the world and judge others motives through tinted glasses. This is a great site and I read it daily and share with my spouse, friends and family.
Anonymous says
Mrs Jones, you are absolutely right. I want to like this website. I really do. I like the thought of this website, A Positive Image of Happy Black Marriages but I find most of the articles very disappointing. Make sure sacrifice this to get him, make sure you do this to keep him, make sure you humble yourself to make him happy, watch out for those evil single chicks who are out to steal him from you, don’t take advise from your awful single friends they will ruin your marriage. Most seemed geared to push women to sacrifice their own happiness and any other relationships for him. Do women need to be happy in a marriage as well? Are bffs who are single now enemies because one is married? Do we not need other relationships? Or is just having a man by your side all you need in life.
ShonD says
@ Mrs. Jones. I agree completely with you. You are absolutely on point.
Mrs. Jones says
@Renee – Thanks for the positive feedback, and yes my husband has a lot of issues that only he needs to deal with, but will point the finger at everyone but himself. I once suggested he go and talk to someone for his issues, and he refused. So I’ve done my part! Marriage is a two way street, when I’m down you lift me up, when your down I lift you up, but he has gotten so resentful and jealous of me, he won’t do that. But it’s ok, I’ve got the King of all Kings in my corner, and that’s God. God has taken care of me and my kids through all of my husbands foolishness, so ladies hear me loud and clear – lean on God and trust him- all God requires is faith and he will move mountains for you and your children – I’m a living witness !!!!!!
Mrs. Jones says
@StephanieB – Thanks also for the positive feed back. And your right, it’s in our nature as women to nurture and take care of others, especially our children. Men get off too easy, just sitting on the couch watching tv, and running the streets.
Mrs. Jones says
@Mia – You’re a very smart women and I like the way you think!! Maybe you should start a blog. I will definitely read it daily !!!!
LaWanda says
As always very on point message. A reminder to those of us who are married. Thank you.
Evolme says
I don’t mind submitting to a my husband, but there are many men with insecurities issues that they are not happy with, and it can be an issue. How does a women submit to a man that has issues with himself? I think seeing who you are involved with first helps, but as Mrs Jones said, sometimes when they are wooing you its all a facade. There are also many single men that want you to submit to them and they haven’t made the commitment to be married to them, just because your a man that means automatically a women submits to you? When as many women suggested doesn’t know how to manage a household? So submit to him and he spends all the money, and now we are in debt This is the thing I don’t understand. However I am not God, so I don’t have all the answers. I lived with a man but we weren’t married, and Thank God because he didn’t know how to manage anything, all he demand was I am the man and I make the rules, this can’t be of God. Although we were not married, but I wouldn’t want to be married to someone like that. It didn’t work out but I pray the next man I submit to will be my husband, and respect me enough to help make decisions in our household. I don’t want to wear the pants in my house, but I do want him to pray and seek God to help him in this role, not just try to do it on his on because he is the man!
Evolme says
I would love to see more articles that deal with men insecurities, and what they did to overcome them. I know the makeup of men and women is different, but I would love to see this, because I feel that many men has enough pressure as it is and sometimes don’t know how to deal with their issues. We all have issues but I think men deals with their problems differently. Just telling us women to submit will not create a happpy marriage, it maybe a start but there is more to it. What I see from past experiences that many men are very insecure with a women success and are intimidated by it,however at the same time there are some women who flash their success in the men’s face, but not all of us do that. I would love to see us deal more with what the black men go through. So they can begin to heal. Most women don’t want to submit because of the insecurities and simply they are not stepping up to do the job. I know it takes time but at least be prepared, some many want to be husbands but are not even ready for the role.
Darrell Hines says
Great article, good insight! I believe it goes both ways.
DrMichelle says
Yes it does. Thanks for the reminder.
Tracey Stills says
As a woman, if you have to keep saying “I’m an independent woman” then maybe you aren’t. An independent woman knows her worth and her faults. Independent women are smart, trustworthy, and are willing to work with her husband due to the fact that she knows who she is. When the thought process comes up in her mind, during the marriage, it doesn’t have to be broadcasted that you are independent, but a true independent woman will submit to WHAT IS RIGHT!
ShonD says
The biggest problem with the writers on this website is that they use the word independent (the ability to care of one’s self, the drive to go after one’s dream, the capacity to think for one’s self) when it comes to women interchangeably with selfish, arrogant , bitter and domineering. Too many times a woman’s independence is blamed for her inability to substain relationship when its really a one of these character flaws. When a woman is constantly rubbing in her partner’s face about how much money she has, the degrees she’s received, what kind of car she drives she is arrogant. A woman that wasnts to w, e,b,arthe pants and run things is domineering. A woman who cannot trust men to take care of things because all men lie, cheat or steal is bitter. However the words arrogant, domineering, and bitter get lost somehow and substituted with independent. As is that is the same thing. So independent women who don’t have the same character flaws are leftsscratching their heads. What if you are independent but not arrogant, selfish,bitter, or domineering? Where does that leave you?
Evolme says
Well Said Shon D!
Honoree says
I’m more than a bit concerned about the language and tone of the article. I’m married, but I don’t think that getting married should mean deferring to a man. That’s very dangerous language–it reminds one of the language that Paul used in the Bible concerning slaves and masters. I think marriage is about two people deferring to each other at different times, and also, I think that this language–which essentially says that in order to be married a woman should give up her power to a man by choice–is why many women are scared of marriage. Certainly marriage is about trust. But why exactly do men get to be the “head.” And please don’t quote the Bible on me, because at one time, the Bible was interpreted that Black people were supposed to be the slaves of White people. I am a Christian, but I’m also a woman who does not believe that I was created to submit to a man. I’ve seen happy married unions between other people who feel as I so.
Anonymous says
I think many of you need to thoroughly read your Word and ask God to give you understanding of your role as wife. Looks like many of you are focused on what the,man is or isn’t doing. The only one we can change is ourselves. The word does say for wives to revere, derfer, prefer etc our husbands. The husband is to love us. Show me a scripture that says otherwise….I’ll wait…
Josiah says
Wow! Thanks ‘Anonymous’ for the challenge! Scripture teaches that authority in marriage is resident within the relationship rather than in either of the spouses. Even though believing wives are called to submit to their husbands (Eph.5:22), husbands and wives are to submit to each other ‘out of reverence for Christ’ (Eph.5:21). Effective application of Scripture in our lives and situation requires a contextual as well as a cultural perspective. Marriage has undergone significant changes over the past 2 centuries: ‘institutional’, ‘companionate’ and, now, unfortunately, ‘individualistic’. Today’s marriages tend to embrace some aspects of each. Literal application Eph. 5:22 appears to be applicable to those embracing the institutional definition of marriage whereas those embracing the companionate definition prefer Eph 5:21! Spouses embracing the companionate definition engage in self-sacrificing, self-giving, other-serving and other-preferring attitudes and behaviours! Because this marriage is based on equality, authority ought never be an issue for these couples! Individalistic marriages are characterized by a pursuit for personal benefits – personal fulfillment, happiness and development! Rather than interdependence, independence characterises these relationships. I believe it takes utmost submission to be a truly loving husband! See, a man has to be secure in order for him to be submissive husband. An insecure man will most likely make an authoritative husband. It takes submission to God for ladies to find submissive men and vice versa!
stephanieb says
Great comment Josiah, I agree that we need to really take a look at what the Word is saying and also PRAY for understand, because that’s the problem, people read the Word, but they don’t really have a true understanding of it, hence all of the misinterpretation of it all of the time.
DrMichelle says
Thanks Josiah for this.
Mark Echols says
Dr. Michelle Johnson. This was an excellent and well stated article. I can also say from personal experience having been married (now divorced) to a black woman from Europe, that African American women aren’t the only ones dealing with the “independent woman” mindset because other black communities imitate us. Other Black communities around the world look up to African Americans, they listen to the songs, watch the movies, read the books….and adopt dysfunctional beliefs and behavior to their detriment. As you eloquently stated: “Marriage is about balance, agreement, and compromise. If you plan to keep wearing your independent badge of honor after you’ve taken off your wedding dress, then don’t get married”. Hopefully your words of wisdom reached across the ocean in that debate.
Josiah says
Mark Echols, I am not quite sure about your assumption that other African communities look upto and immitate African Americans! The African American community has insignificant impact on African communities because of the tenacity of these communities to their cultural values! . Actually, research points to the contrary: African communities tend to have stronger marriages. This discrepancy is attributed to the significant differences in attitudes as well as the effects of different social and structural factors especially among men from the two communities. I hope this takes the pressure off , otherwise assumption of responsibility for African communities would be too heavy a responsibility for the African American community to assume! ‘Independence’, elsewhere referred to as ‘insecurity’, ‘selfishness’, or ‘arrogance’, is characteristic of all humanity.
stephanieb says
I agree Josiah, I think that if anything, marriages in the African-American community really reflect more of the negative aspects of marriage in general here in America, such as the increase in divorce, co-habitating before marriage, having babies out of wedlock, etc. Other cultures overseas, such as African and even Indian, Oriental, and Hispanic as well seem to look down more on things like cohabitating, divorce, and having OOW children. Like the saying goes, when America has a cold, Black America has the flu, and I think this applies to African-American marriages and relationships in general.
Mark says
Josiah:
I responded to this article to give due credit to Dr. Johnson for a well written piece, not to enter into a debate. If your contention is that the problem with marriages in the African American community is that they have shifted away from their African basis, then, I completed agree. However I will say that you should never identify someone’s experiences as an “assumption” just because you disagree. I am more aware of the differences between African centered marriages and American/European centered marriages than you could ever know. However that was not and is not the discussion. The context of the conversation was the “independent woman” in black communities throughout the world; focusing specifically on the US and the UK. I stated black communities throughout the world are influenced by African Americans and African American culture. That is a fact, and it is something I’ve personally observed and experienced as someone who has traveled throughout Europe, the Caribbean, as well as Africa. That is not to say that African American marriages influence marriages in Africa; however, I never said that was the case.
DrMichelle says
Hello Mark. Thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts about the topic. I hope you have a chance to listen to the interview I did on British radio. Here is the link.
https://alabasterwoman.squarespace.com/alabasterwoman/2013/5/3/what-it-means-to-be-an-independent-woman.html
Thanks again.
Michele Echols says
Mark Echols only wanted to be legally divorced at this time. He started off as a very good man and encouraged independency. Once independence showed its face, he wasn’t able to handle it. He had very bad and immoral habits that he wanted his wife to just forgive, time after time. Once she got to a point where she was so broken, turned all the worries over to Christ. He felt that she didn’t care about him and didn’t support his efforts. You see, his track record was badly scarred. Even though his wife had endured so much pain throughout the years, she still tried to hold on to the marriage. Mark was a leader in the church where he served. While being a strong “Christian”, his phrase was, “the Holy Spirit told me to divorce my wife”. Mark wasn’t satisfied w/his wife of 25years any more. He’d found greener pastures, but wanted to justify his actions because he had an independent woman. In 2015, he’s finally divorced. Walked out on his wife and children in 2014, and never looked back. He was too afraid of having that independent woman he thought he always wanted. With so many males like this, women are forced to become independent. There’s no depending on a male that can’t be a “MAN”. It’s not just a title, there’s responsibility that goes with that title.
Mrs. Jones says
@CeeZet – I’m not sure where you’re going with this. Your response was all over the place and you used text message lingo, which I really don’t understand. But please read all my post and you will have already answered your questions you asked in your response. God Bless !!!
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