by E. Payne
Soon after my second child was born I had a falling out with my best friend over a nasty falling out he had with the woman who would eventually become my wife. The why, the when and the where are irrelevant at this point. I wasn’t even around when it happened. What actually did matter was that my friend assumed he could speak to me about her as negatively as he wanted to with the goal being for me to “put her in check”.
He was very very wrong in this assumption. Even on the wild chance I had been open to the idea, the message was lost in his delivery. I surprised myself with how ferociously I laid out the lines he couldn’t cross with her, with us. The damage to our year’s-long bond was irreparable. It was a clear sign that all we had was all those years. We briefly patched things up but things were never the same. Eventually it sputtered out and died.
After the initial fallout, I spent many days wondering how it was that our friendship deteriorated so quickly. What I had to accept was that the seeds for its destruction had been there for a long time. But what really got to me was what gave this guy the idea he could speak to me about my lady, the mother of my children no less, any which way he wanted?
My answer didn’t come in the form of a what, but instead a who. And the who stood right in front of me, staring at me in the mirror. I came to the unfortunate conclusion that for the longest I had been complaining about my lady, harmlessly venting, or so I thought, as anyone would to a best friend. He was my sounding board and someone I trusted for advice. But this friend didn’t have a successful relationship to speak of in any of his experiences in all the fifteen years I had known him. Making matters worse, he was recently licking his wounds from a devastating divorce and hadn’t yet recovered from not realizing his own dreams of having a family. It didn’t occur to me at the time that he had formed an opinion, a one-sided one based on all of my “venting.” In being a friend to me, I inadvertently had created an enemy of my relationship. Regardless of what he should or should not have done, I was the one who gave him the green light to have disdain for the love of my life.
As much as you need to be aware of who are the Friends of Your Marriage you need to make sure you aren’t creating enemies of it either. No man or woman is an island. We all need someone to vent to, but you have to honestly ask yourself if the person you’re talking to can actually remain impartial while you go through your emotional warpath(s). Do they always take you at your word or are they able to discern when you’re just blowing off steam? Even in extreme cases of abuse or infidelity a friend speaking or acting “on your behalf” can create disastrous and sometimes tragic results. My case was a double whammy: I lost a friend over words I had given him to speak and I painfully endured listening to someone I loved get disrespected only to realize I had been disrespecting her all along. It’s a mistake I’ve promised myself to never repeat.
You can never be too careful with the negative words you speak about the ones you love. There is nothing worse than hearing words you’ve spoken in moments of anger about your loved one spoken as opinion by friends, family and/or even your children. So before a potentially embarrassing and irreparable situation occurs, make sure you’ve done you’re part to ensure it doesn’t happen: Watch your mouth! And watch who you’re mouthing off to!
Have you ever experienced friends or family get out of line with you or your spouse regarding your relationship or vice versa? Have you ever played a role in this or discovered your spouse did?
Author of the now infamous, My Wife Is NOT My Friend (on Facebook), Eric talks about being a father and a husband on his blog, Makes Me Wanna Holler ““ Man, Dad, Husband. You can follow him on Twitter or find him chopping it up on his Facebook Page. He is the author the soon to be published, Bottom Line Fatherhood, and of I See Through Eyes, a book of poetry and short stories. In his “spare time” Eric reviews autos and writes relationship articles for Atlanta-based J’Adore Magazine.
Dianne M Daniels says
Amen, and I say again, AMEN! I’m sorry for the loss of your friend – it sounds like it was truly painful. I am VERY careful who I “vent” to about my spouse. My mother always told me that telling the intimate secrets of our relationship – our fights, our make-ups, our disagreements and our love for each other – to other people outside the relationship can cause trouble. You must be careful who’s counsel you keep and who you ask for counsel.
Too many times we’ve heard / seen women telling their girlfriends about their wonderful relationship, and then one of those pseud0-friends tries to ‘horn in’ on the action. This can happen with men as well…
Yes, you need someone to vent to occasionally, but you have to be careful that the ‘ventee’ can be loving but objective. Terrific article!
Eve says
Pure wisdom. Thank you for sharing this.
Lamar Tyler says
Great post and so very true.
Anonymous says
This is an excellent article. It gives you something to really think about and makes you more conscious of the things we say.
EPayne says
Either “horn-in” or tear apart just for the sake of it, to “keep” you all to themselves only to drop you once they get back on the relationship sauce. The possibilities for ruin are endless.
W.Reid says
Yeah, I agree. Find someone who can be objective and impartial instead of taking your side, because you aren’t always right. Good friends will tell you when you aren’t right.
Brandi says
Great Post!! This quote really struck a chord with me “In being a friend to me, I inadvertently had created an enemy of my relationship.” We often times don’t realize how we are creating an enemy of our relationship just by speaking those negative words..ie: venting.
HarrietH says
Great post! This can definitely apply to in laws as well. I have to be more careful about who I “vent” to. Everything will be going great between my husband and I again, but if I’ve vented to a friend or loved one about something, and they don’t know the situation is resolved, then they are stuck in the same mode of, “Girl, no he didn’t!”
Great post!
Toyia_pride says
Great post unfortanely I have done this very thing, but I have become wiser and I am making a contious effort to search in with in myself and my husband for answers, as well as venting to a pen and paper then throwing it a way….
Ronnie_BMWK says
Great post!! So true..I learned this the hard way in a past relationship. I was always complaining and my friends disrespected my boyfriend and my relationship. I am glad I learned that lesson before I got married.
Mosi Kwame Ambilikile says
Hmm, I guest I can recall a somewhat similar situatuion but without it being a woman involved. Out of it, wisdom teaches that a true anything comes by a test of time and when those tests comes you ought to able to disagreet respectfully without being disagreetable. Meaning, that it should not change the order of your “true” friendship but in fact strengthen it in its character. History teaches also that wars are often fought over something of lost and/or gain. Reconcilliation should be a note that “all” is forgiven and care is taken from that point that friendship endures through thick or thin. In case of over a woman that’s another matter!
Peace.
-ingi upendo
Tiya says
Great post. I am always careful who I share my relationship ups and downs with. I trust my friends the most who don’t just tell me what I want to hear, but tell me what’s best for my marriage. I am sorry to hear about your friendship ending, but it sounds like you were able to walk away with a great lesson and that’s worth it.
Smokie_001 says
I don’t have a desire to negatively speak about my husband to anyone. Maybe here and there I’ll exaggerate a “compaint” just to have something “not so happy” to share with my friends — but if we have a serious issue, I wouldn’t even consider venting to friends or family. God, my pastor, and myself are enough.
Formerfriend says
Interesting post. Poetic licensing doesn’t change history. In your soul searching, I hope you look deep enough to realize that you don’t lose friends because of who you choose as a mate. Sometimes you lose friends because you violate the trust that your friends put in you with your inability to refrain from pillowtalk about others with your mate. How many friends have you lost because of this? Just a thought.
EPayne says
I think you should really read the article and see the following line: “I spent many days wondering how it was that our friendship deteriorated so quickly. What I had to accept was that the seeds for its destruction had been there for a long time.”
What is actually interesting is that you would point out “my inability” as if I hadn’t stated it myself in this piece. This was a piece about a lesson learned the hard way. So what exactly is your observation/point?
You don’t have to wonder about how many friends I’ve lost because I clearly stated it in the article. Take from it what you will, but don’t judge me without knowing me. Thank you.
Formerfriend says
Don’t assume that every person reading your posts doesn’t know you and your type. Friendships are relationships as well. You speak with such wisdom on what it takes to maintain your relationships with your wife and children but have not matured enough to recognize the same values in your so-called friendships. Seems to me that I struck a nerve with you, no need to be defensive, unless you are guilty of what I said. You’re quite welcome.
EPayne says
Well if you haven’t checked, this site is about marriage and children. And I make no assumptions at all. I hope that you were able to glean something from the post based on what it was actually written about: speaking ill of the ones you love and not friendships. It is not my business to judge or declare someone a “type” or call someone out on maturity or put an assumed value on their interpersonal relationships. As such I don’t appreciate it when it is done to me. So now for two comments I have been judged, for whatever reason, by you on a point which was not even the focus of this post, and one I clearly stated was unrelated to the subject.
What is it about my reference to the catalyst that caused me to realize an error with my then girlfriend that sticks in your craw? I’ve reread the piece and don’t see anywhere where I blamed this former friend for his actions, nor do I recall blaming the end of our friendship on his actions. We actually reconciled but time, distance and so on worked against both of us. In fact we chatted briefly not too long ago and managed to catch up for a few moments. if you read the post you will see that I clearly established that the decline of a previous friendship had nothing to do with my role in creating an enemy of my relationship. To be completely honest we could have remained friends and the circumstances would’ve been exactly the same as would this article as it pertains to the subject matter based on my actions – not his. No malice intended at all or any level of defensiveness, but based on your “supposed” knowledge of me are you this “former friend” of mine or are you simply on a site about marriage and family attempting to bait me for whatever reason? Because if either is the case I think it’d be best to stay on topic for the sake of people visiting here who are dealing with this issue of making missteps with their spouses/partners through the careless use of negative language. If you are this “former friend” I have no beef with you nor have I ever, and this neither the forum to clear the air nor to “show me for who I really am.”
EPayne says
Well if you haven’t checked, this site is about marriage and children. And I make no assumptions at all. I hope that you were able to glean something from the post based on what it was actually written about: speaking ill of the ones you love and not friendships. It is not my business to judge or declare someone a “type” or call someone out on maturity or put an assumed value on their interpersonal relationships. As such I don’t appreciate it when it is done to me. So now for two comments I have been judged, for whatever reason, by you on a point which was not even the focus of this post, and one I clearly stated was unrelated to the subject.
What is it about my reference to the catalyst that caused me to realize an error with my then girlfriend that sticks in your craw? I’ve reread the piece and don’t see anywhere where I blamed this former friend for his actions, nor do I recall blaming the end of our friendship on his actions. We actually reconciled but time, distance and so on worked against both of us. In fact we chatted briefly not too long ago and managed to catch up for a few moments. if you read the post you will see that I clearly established that the decline of a previous friendship had nothing to do with my role in creating an enemy of my relationship. To be completely honest we could have remained friends and the circumstances would’ve been exactly the same as would this article as it pertains to the subject matter based on my actions – not his. No malice intended at all or any level of defensiveness, but based on your “supposed” knowledge of me are you this “former friend” of mine or are you simply on a site about marriage and family attempting to bait me for whatever reason? Because if either is the case I think it’d be best to stay on topic for the sake of people visiting here who are dealing with this issue of making missteps with their spouses/partners through the careless use of negative language. If you are this “former friend” I have no beef with you nor have I ever, and this neither the forum to clear the air nor to “show me for who I really am.”
HarrietH says
One thing I LOVE about writing for this website and reading its content is the fact that through our craft, we have the opportunity to be transparent about our own foibles and shortcomings.
It’s hard to come by writers who are willing to “show their tail” for the world to see just so someone else dealing with the same type of fault can learn a lesson and elevate their thinking beyond their self-made conflicts. Usually when that happens, it comes out like a whining rant or complaint. But with the writers on this site–including and especially E. Payne–the balance is found and wisdom bursts forth through the lines we read.
This is a consistent blessing and gift shared that you won’t be able to find anywhere else but here, the blogs that the contributors have, and perhaps–if you’re willing to get off your dime–the books they have written.
That said, I think your mysterious (and tad bit insulting) diatribe towards this particular author was below the belt and extremely cowardly. Enjoy the gift of his transparent, humbling work for what it is.
If you have a personal problem with the author, there is plenty of contact information located in the italicized paragraph at the bottom of the article (and if you have an issue with my words, you can find my contact info under the “Meet the Team” section of this website).
Formerfriend says
I appreciate your support of this author and I love reading the content of this website. I take exception, however, to this author portraying this former friend in the way that he has for your and every other reader’s enjoyment. To refer to failed relationships and failed family aspirations was cowardly, below the belt and disrespectful at best. I feel for the person whom the author used as fodder for his post and I wonder if he could stand up to his former friends making the same posts about him. Transparency and humility is in the eye of the beholder and I personally don’t see it in this post. In addition, bloggers who use their personal relationships for inspiration in their writing need to acknowledge that sometimes it best to speak of their own experiences, not the lives of others around them, particularly when someone may be reading who can refute your story. Had the creators of this site not wanted the opinions of all, I am sure that comments would have been disabled.
EPayne says
“But this friend didnt have a successful relationship to speak of in any of his experiences in all the fifteen years I had known him. Making matters worse, he was recently licking his wounds from a devastating divorce and hadnt yet recovered from not realizing his own dreams of having a family. ” [Meaning this was someone I shouldn’t have been talking to at the time, friend or no friend. Things were too intense. The wounds were too fresh. I didn’t have the discernment to understand that at the time.]
I needed a day away from this even though I already knew what this was about. This wasn’t a defamation as I did not name names. There was no “story” for anyone involved to defend but rather I was illustrating a point at my own expense. You took issue with the illustration, which is your right. In the idea that my former homie is no longer in my life and a few years have passed I felt able to speak on it — pointing the finger more at me than anyone else. I talk about myself quite badly via my posts on this site. And truth be told I didn’t have any successful relationships to speak of either in all my years, and some days wonder if I still don’t. Way back when, we were all there together collectively making messes of our emotional lives. But there were plenty of folk I knew who did but I was always too embarrassed to talk to them. Had I gotten over myself and my pride I’d be further along today than I am.
For readers on this site who don’t know me from a can of paint, this was nothing more than an anonymous retelling and not a slight directed at “you” or this former friend that you are so passionate about defending. (I can hear the same eloquence and skill for debate that he uses in his speaking voice in your written comments, by the way). Many times we [writers/bloggers here] have posted on this site about seeking out wrong counsel even it is friends. This point was not a slam against that former friend who didn’t need to defend himself at all, but rather for those who might be doing the same thing and not realizing it or framing the issue appropriately. Until this string of comments no one would’ve been the wiser or thought anything of the friend as this was about my own discoveries. If you peruse the body of articles/posts here this issue has come up again and again and some have been so bold as to mention family. I am not saying that this is correct but it does speak to “transparency”, if you will, that some other commenters have mentioned to help others along who may not be so far in their walks. But no different than comedians and anyone else who draw from personal experience sometimes those personal experiences call you out. I guess this is my time.
Whoever you are since you have opted to be anonymous via Disqus please know that this was no defamation to elevate myself or create “reader enjoyment”. If you either are this person or are very close to them then you should also know the ultimate end of things which left me at my altar short one key person – my “former friend” – and no one will ever know the agony of that but me. Especially as there was, and to this day is no resolution. So I’ll use this completely unorthodox forum of a comments thread to say that for my role in the way things fell apart I apologize. It takes 2 to tango but I don’t finger point. I wish you or whomever you are claiming to defend very well and hope you don’t remain too angry for too long over a harmless article that had as it’s intent not to defame or disresepect. However I am glad that this has happened to “smoke you or your representative out” because now I have more closure than I ever did in years prior.
Thank you, old “former friend”. Know that I have nothing but benevolence for you which is why I reached out recently, in real life, albeit an email, to see how things were going. Know that I supported you via social media and kept abreast of the whole thing until the final count was in, rooting for you the entire time.
I wish you well on your journey.
mochazina says
FF – the author simply posted that the friendship faltered because of lack of clarity of the boundaries. Nobody thinks any less of the friend. We (married folk) read this as a basic warning to not present an unbalanced view of our spouses to anyone lest there be consequences. E Payne learned this the hard way and is sharing his story of learning that lesson and the loss and pain it caused him. I happened to learn it from someone telling me. Either way, this article is so significantly NOT about that friend, but what that friend represented (a teacher of marital lessons, as this is a marriage website) and the beginning of a dialogue about when and how we all learned that lesson.
However, if you insist on focusing on the friend, a balanced reader would surmise that the friend also felt pain in the process, and learned a lesson in not putting himself in an antagonistic position against a friend’s spouse, NOT that the friend had some tremendous grievance levied against him by E Payne. A balanced reader would surmise that they both faltered, NOT that it was solely the friend’s error.
EPayne says
I see now what the issue is. My description of the friend’s previous relationships in the article is what appears to be at issue. And here on the site we talk all the time about either not seeking out the right counsel or being in the an erroneous state of mind as well. In the married lane we don’t really mean any harm by it it’s more to say that we need to seek out counsel from those who are in more successful places than we are. But if the wound hasn’t healed I do now understand the backlash from this particular commenter.
HarrietH says
Well, in the words of my late grandmother, “A kicked dog will holler.” It just seems that you chose to focus on the negative episode rather than the wisdom the writer gained from it. I guess I don’t understand why it was taken so personally, especially when the author made it clear that he was talking about himself and his shortcomings. *shrug*
Either way, please continue to enjoy the content on BMWK! Your commentary is no less valuable than anyone else’s. We’re a team, and although we don’t take too kindly to perceived insult, we still welcome any and all viewpoints others want to share.
Be blessed!
Cafe72 says
I somehow missed this posting the first time around but came to it via the Understanding the Tough Guy post. As is often the case, this one is a timely one for me. For the past 2 years I’ve listened to my married sister vent about her relationship with her husband, which is definitely emotionally and verbally abusive. I try to be a sister and friend and just listen because I know that is what she needs. But I always struggle with at what point I am providing an outlet for her without helping her address the problem. I love my brother in law, but his behavior toward my sister scares me. Today she called and sounded more upset than ever before. She confirmed that he had put his hands on her (I strongly suspect this is not the first time). I struggled with what to do next, but when she said he had the keys to all the cars and she may not be able to speak to me when he returned because she “couldn’t use the phone”, I decided to call the police. I feel like I have definitely become an enemy of their marriage, but in this instance, I think I have to be. Or maybe, in fact, I’m just a sister that wishes their marriage will survive….as a marriage should, not in it’s current state.