by Delano Squires
One of my favorite movies about dating and relationships is Spike Lee’s film She’s Gotta Have It. It was released in 1986 but still offers useful commentary on a number of issues, including sexuality, honesty, monogamy, and our perceptions of acceptable gender roles. The movie follows the love life of the protagonist, Nola Darling, as she manages the relationships she maintains with three men. Each man is aware of the other two and each fills a specific role: Jamie Overstreet is caring and sincere, Mars Blackmon is funny and edgy, and Greer Childs is the cocky pretty boy. One of the opening scenes is a montage of brothers reciting ”pickup lines” (e.g., “girl, I’ll drink a tub of your bathwater”) and ends with Nola fondly remembering her first interaction with Jamie, where he initiated this exchange:
“Nola, I don’t want to chance not seeing you again. Whatever you want to do I’ll do, wherever you want to go I’ll take you. Will you see me?”
Now, I understand that this is a movie and the characters here are fictional, but there was something about Jamie’s words that struck me as being somewhat, well, pathetic. I say this fully acknowledging that he was the most genuine of the three men in Nola’s life. In fact, most people would say that Jamie was a nice guy, and some would assume that is why he didn’t end up with Nola by the film’s end. I’ve often heard that “nice guys finish last,” but after watching these men interact with Nola I wasn’t sure whether that is actually true.
I’ve heard a nice guy described as someone who, among other things, treats a woman with respect, keeps his commitments, holds doors, offers his coat when its cold, walks on the outside of the sidewalk, and offers sincere compliments. These are qualities that seem to be universally desired and appreciated by women, which is why I find it strange that a man who exhibits these characteristics would finish last. I did a quick, informal survey on Facebook and Twitter and asked women whether anything would make a man “too nice.” Most respondents didn’t believe a man could be too nice. They characterized the men that finish last as pushovers.
According to Doc Love, a dating and relationship expert on AskMen.com, a woman’s interest level decreases when a man is too eager to please, prematurely emotionally expressive, always available, and unwilling to do or say anything he feels might upset her. Again, it seems as if a lack of backbone, not flawless manners, is what really turns women off.
Another factor that must be considered is the extent to which perception shapes what we consider “too nice.” For example, one friend said she believes a woman with a low sense of self-worth would consider a man too nice if he: treats her well without expecting anything in return, is clear about his intentions and doesn’t play games, and doesn’t overreact when she does or says things that are blatantly wrong. While these characteristics seem like every woman’s dream, a woman’s sense of ”normal” may be disrupted by this type of man if she has become used to being in relationships that are characterized by insecurity, dishonesty, mistrust, and verbal or physical abuse.
This perception problem also affects the way many men assess their own niceness. Given the state of the black male image, where on the spectrum between Lil Wayne and President Obama, we are fed much more of the former, some guys define their niceness solely in opposition to the rudeness and disrespect exhibited by other men. These men would be well served to understand that simply not being obnoxious (e.g., catcalls, invading personal space) is not the equivalent of being too nice.
It is also helpful to consider the second part of the phrase and what it actually means to “finish last.” Some men have the perception that a woman’s lack of interest is equivalent to failure, but that’s not always the case. We should all be cognizant of the fact that, given the vast array of personalities, temperaments, experiences, and preferences, every person we meet will not be a suitable match. All of us can probably think of at least one relationship we are glad we either ended earlier than we might have initially hoped or avoided altogether.
Life is lived moving forward but understood looking backward, so hindsight tends to improve our ability to make sense of the events in our past. Therefore, a man who parts company with a woman who can’t appreciate his respectful demeanor should consider that a major victory. It is much better to walk away with a bruised ego in the short term than to couple with someone who does not, or cannot, appreciate you for who you are.
A wise person will recognize and appreciate the actions of someone who is genuinely kind and caring, but the reason Jamie, Mars, and Greer “finished last” was because they undervalued their own worth, not because they treated Nola too well. Their behavior is not unique to men either. There are also women who, under the guise of being “nice,” compromise their standards, sacrifice legitimate needs, forgo relationship security, and make themselves unnecessarily and prematurely vulnerable. Regardless of gender, we should all learn the difference between service and servitude. This isn’t always easy, but someone should have told the men in the movie that just because she’s got to have it doesn’t mean that you’ve got to give it.
BMWK, do you really believe nice guys finish last? What do does this phrase mean to you?
Delano Squires is currently a graduate student in Social Policy at the George Washington University. His interests are contemporary African American culture and fatherhood, families, and child development. Follow him on Twitter @Mr_Squires.
EPayne says
An absolutely great and thought provoking article to go into the weekend with! Everytime I got ready to add my two cents your points did it for me.
H. Roberta Williams says
“There are also women who, under the guise of being “nice,†compromise their standards, sacrifice legitimate needs, forgo relationship security, and make themselves unnecessarily and prematurely vulnerable.”
Profound statement and great way to conclude an awesome, thought provoking piece!
To answer your question, no, I don’t believe “nice guys” finish last. Your discourse about knowing your value and inherent worth is where the rubber meets the road. If a person doesn’t know that, they’ll find themselves being taken advantage of and finishing last on a consistent basis.
GREAT piece!
H. Roberta Williams says
“There are also women who, under the guise of being “nice,†compromise their standards, sacrifice legitimate needs, forgo relationship security, and make themselves unnecessarily and prematurely vulnerable.”
Profound statement and great way to conclude an awesome, thought provoking piece!
To answer your question, no, I don’t believe “nice guys” finish last. Your discourse about knowing your value and inherent worth is where the rubber meets the road. If a person doesn’t know that, they’ll find themselves being taken advantage of and finishing last on a consistent basis.
GREAT piece!
H. Roberta Williams says
“There are also women who, under the guise of being “nice,†compromise their standards, sacrifice legitimate needs, forgo relationship security, and make themselves unnecessarily and prematurely vulnerable.”
Profound statement and great way to conclude an awesome, thought provoking piece!
To answer your question, no, I don’t believe “nice guys” finish last. Your discourse about knowing your value and inherent worth is where the rubber meets the road. If a person doesn’t know that, they’ll find themselves being taken advantage of and finishing last on a consistent basis.
GREAT piece!
H. Roberta Williams says
“There are also women who, under the guise of being “nice,†compromise their standards, sacrifice legitimate needs, forgo relationship security, and make themselves unnecessarily and prematurely vulnerable.”
Profound statement and great way to conclude an awesome, thought provoking piece!
To answer your question, no, I don’t believe “nice guys” finish last. Your discourse about knowing your value and inherent worth is where the rubber meets the road. If a person doesn’t know that, they’ll find themselves being taken advantage of and finishing last on a consistent basis.
GREAT piece!
Anonymous says
Great post! Took me painfully back to my dating days. Makes me reflect and thank God anew for my wife!
SAC says
I was patiently waiting to read this piece and you didn’t disappoint at all. Good job, bruh!
Firstladydavis52 says
This is excellent material for us as a black people. Lord knows we need it.
Mrs A Smith says
Great Read!
Rubygriffin36 says
Yes,cause everybody want to feel love….
Delano Squires says
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. This is something I’ve heard enough through the years to know that it is an issue worth discussing. I was actually surprised by the number of women who said that they didn’t think a guy could even be “too nice”. Bad boys of the world should be on alert. Nice guys are taking over….
Delano Squires says
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. This is something I’ve heard enough through the years to know that it is an issue worth discussing. I was actually surprised by the number of women who said that they didn’t think a guy could even be “too nice”. Bad boys of the world should be on alert. Nice guys are taking over….
Res says
Nice people in general finish last. That goes for men and women.
JF says
I really do like this article because it explored this notion or saying of “nice guys finish last” and also branches into more lateral related topics. I do want to say that I do believe there is much truth to “nice guys finish last”, but this is not to disagree.
This article was great and I agree with the notion of someone being too nice/”pathetic” in a way that devalues themselves. I remember discussing a topic similar to this with some young ladies and stating that at some point in your chase/courtship you may devalue yourself. Like, you try hard to get through to someone with no reciprocity and if you keep going you’ll end up devaluing yourself, denying your own self of the necessary affection/attention/respect/consideration/effort.
I also agree with the example of that guy being pathetic/desperate willing to do anything for some time. Honestly, in desperation like that, one questions whether there is any sincerity in the gesture. A adoration/admiration/longing for someone and a desperation for female company/companionship are quite different.
So, I totally agree with this article. I do, however, feel this ‘nice guys finish last’ concept still coexists. Bassey Ikpi brought this topic up on Twitter and I added my two cents and got a response of “most guys who say they are nice, really/probably aren’t” and the tough guy image is only/mainly perpetuated in the younger demographic. I could see the truth in both sentiments.
I still think there is still this uberman alpha male macho “man man” archetype that is wanted. I keep hearing women saying “edge” “bad boy” etc and saying them as something requisite to their ideal man, or just want they want period. I’ve heard young women and more mature women discussing their check(wish) list and there was always this “but he needs an edge etc”. There’s this needs for aggression at times that disturbs me. I know it’s an American concept, but it’s also a strong concept in the African American community, the fighter/aggressor. It disturbs me how many define strength and power. Now, I understand no one wants a push over. I understand a woman’s need for security in all forms, but at times it seems that if I guy was just a laid back fellow or more of a book/art guy that that would be some sort of deficiency.
But, I may be venturing more in the field of how we define what it is to be a man or what real strength is vs “the nice guy” concept. Excuse me if I have. This could very well be a question of maturity. This remains a concept I think about/struggle with because I feel many women almost need that uberman to give respect and if youre not proverbially beating your chest you dont get respect. There could be many factors to this. A woman 30-45 years old who has had much experience dating/relationships maybe not feel this need for ‘edge the way a 21-26 year old might. But, is that from maturity, maybe. It could also be from a since of desperation or coming to reality of the dating pool that shes willing to waver on certain things on her list.
Excuse me if I have deviated extensively from my original though, which is although I absolutely agree with this article, yet I still feel the “nice guys finish last†notion coexists even if only on a particular level/percentage.
Great Job exploring this topic, its one that should be given great thought and discussion…
JB says
I think the answer to this question depends on the age of the person answering. I teach a relationship curriculum in the classroom to 8th -12th graders and hear WAY too often from teen girls that they prefer the “bad boy” type. The boys in the classroom lament the fact that “nice guys finish last” and at least half the time, the girls agree that they don’t like “nice guys”…thus creating a vicious cycle…the boys hear the girls say that so they become a “bad boy” type and on and on….I think with age comes wisdom; but I cringe to think what these young ladies have to go through before they become wise enough to know that the “guys with the edge”, as they call it, aren’t necessarily the best long-term choice.
Cordelearts says
Sounds good but typically nice people do finish last.
kimbers says
A lot of nice people I know finish first. The key is not being a pushover or a “captainsaveaho”. You can be nice and “nicely” set boundaries. I have an easygoing personality and a lot of people assume that I’m a pushover, they get a real surprise when I tell them “no”calmly, without vitriol or anger. As I read this, one of the things that always bothered me were the nice guys who constantly went after the “bad”, “bitchy” or “needy” girls. That was the role that Jamie played with the noncommittal Nola – even leaving a woman that was willing to be with him to meet Nola’s needs. It was if these nice guys needed someone to either treat them with disrespect, need them for what they could provide materially or force them to constantly prove their worth to the woman. Later after these soul killing relationships, their belief in goodness dashed, these formerly nice guys would treat “nice” woman with disrespect and do “preemptive” actions that would make a balanced relationship impossible. Nice guys can and do finish first, they just have to look for and not settle for anything less than their equal, a nice woman.
Angela says
Kimber, I do agree with you 100% on the point you brought out about nice guys going after bad,B***hy or needy girls.I am well known for being a nice girl, matter of fact too nice, but this only come from men that are considered” Nice Guys”. I would not consider myself too nice, I do nicely set boundaries which guys can’t handle. But as you said earlier… I think they could have handled it better if I crused them out,or never called unless needed something,I feel it is the syndrome of opposites attract. I am at the age that I only want to be around postive nice people,and I have always allowed people to be who they are.
TLProsperityBlog says
Excellent read! Glad I could contribute to your “research”….like I mentioned before I don’t think nice guys finish I don’t think a guy can be too nice. I think that problem is more reflective of the women who say that and their idea/mindset of their self worth.